To Sit or to Sit-Stay

[niche]

I read somewhere that it is preferable to teach to just "sit" or to "down" only without the double command of "sit" then command to "stay."

What do you guys think? It makes sense to teach them to "sit" until released... doesn't it?

[Judi W]

The truth is, the dog should obey the command until it receives another command. Whether you use "stay" or not depends upon which venue you will be competing in. If you are doing AKC, the stay command is accepted. If you are doing Sch. it is not. The stay is a bit of a second command, and yes, can be helpful to the dog. When teaching, don't hesitate to use a signal initially whether you intend to add the stay or not as the signal helps them to understand what is expected. They can be weaned from it as their training progresses

[JonandMichelle]

In my opinion, these are two sep. commands. Once the butt hits the ground, that is the completion of the "SIT" command. If I want my dog to "Stay" I tell them "STAY" after a "SIT" meaning "I want you to stay in the sit where you are."
But yes it also depends on the level of training and what your training for.

Jon

[Echowe]

When you tell your dog to sit, it should sit till you release him. That's how my last trainer taught. Some of the pervious trainers I had taught to stay also. It make sense to me that sit mean sit. Teaching them to stay is handy also.... Sometimes when I don't necessary what them to do any other thing than to stay where they are...like if I want to go to the garage to get something and they all want to follow, I tell them to stay and then sneak off.

[Judi W]

Echowe, You have then decided to use "stay" as an informal instruction. That is fine as long as it is determined ahead of time during training so that the dog is not given conflicting or nonsensical instructions.

In the training world, the stay command is a formal instruction that means literally "don't move" whether the dog is left in a sit, a down or a standing position. That is why students are cautioned not to use that word when they are leaving the house - they truly don't intend for the dog not to move during that time do they? Most of us that compete in AKC do use it because it is of a bit extra help to the dog. In AKC there is no room for error so anything that makes it easier for the dog is gratefully used.

[Ramon]

For me, I started my current dog using Stay and a hand signal, then I weened him off the hand signal. After I joined a Shutzhund club, I weened him off the Stay command, and it worked just fine because he already learned the concept of staying in the same place. Still, I see nothing wrong with using Stay if you're not competing in Shutzhund. Shutzhund is meant to be a breed suitability test, so I think they eliminated the double-command to make sure the dog is capable of following a very disciplined routine.

[valdes43]

The only time I can see "sit" and being released immediately practical is when first teaching a command. But if you think about it, all comands should remain in position until released or given another command. This seems (IMO) to give a very clear message when communicating with the dog. Do you tell your dog "stay" and leave it to your dogs discretion to release himself? He executed the command, didn't he?

I'm not arguing with anyone, just trying to understand. What practical use does a one second sit serve? Or a one second down at that?

[damp]

I never had and never will use the stay command, because I consider it as a double command. When I give a command it means: Sit, down or stand and don’t move an inch until you are told something else (e.g. an other command or the release command)

[WorkinDogz]

valdes43...

It serves a purpose when you're play training...... which you're building speed (not teaching the command itself) so as soon as the dog is stable for 1 second....he's released; rewarded with the chase of the "whatever" or teased and the game begins again.

Stay has a value in training.....especially in day-to-day house manners for the family pet.

Stay is one of those commands (although I don't use stay in the training process with my own dogs; I do teach it in my obedience classes) that is beyond important and could potentially save the dogs life.....IF the owner reinforces it.

[2rotties2luv]

Just to add my 2 cents, this is how my trainer taught us:

SIT - The dog must remain in this position until released by the handler, and the handler may release the dog while at a distance from the dog.

SIT/STAY - The dog must remain in this position until released by the handler, but the handler must return to the command position (heel position) before releasing the dog.

I actually use a SIT/WAIT command when I know the dog will be released at a distance, as in the recall. When I give the SIT/STAY, the dog knows I will be returning to him. This gives the dog a clue as to what's about to happen.

[valdes43]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
valdes43...

It serves a purpose when you're play training...... which you're building speed (not teaching the command itself) so as soon as the dog is stable for 1 second....he's released; rewarded with the chase of the "whatever" or teased and the game begins again.

Stay has a value in training.....especially in day-to-day house manners for the family pet.

Stay is one of those commands (although I don't use stay in the training process with my own dogs; I do teach it in my obedience classes) that is beyond important and could potentially save the dogs life.....IF the owner reinforces it.

Do you come in portable sizes? I need a WorkinDogz, 1 each, to go. ;)

I shouldn't have written the word "release" paired with the sit when trying to ask my question. What I really meant to say was why use a sit that in essence has no formal release command to?

[WorkinDogz]

Originally posted by valdes43


Do you come in portable sizes? I need a WorkinDogz, 1 each, to go. ;)

Very portable; and I have learned via a million moves to pack up a household of 7 till the closets and cabinets are bare......in 3 days. Who needs TMO. :D DITY moves; are where it's at...LOLOL


A release word is something I live and breath by in training. But I have to say... I never release from the "down" position (unless the play training thing is happening). If they are on a down...I'm either walking back and giving a sit (like finishing a long down exercise) or the dog is getting recalled.