Growling when eating?

[tuckt]

I looked through the message board, and really didn't find an answer to my question. Thought I would state that up front. :)

I have a 13 week old male rottie that we got from my wife's cousin. She has breed her rottie several times and has aways had the best luck and has been very sucessful. We decided that it was time for us to get a dog, and we fell in love with a certain male. So, after some discussion, we picked "Keagan" up last month. Now Keagan got to spend his first 9 weeks with his brother and sister. I think they may have had a dire effect on his eating habits. For the first few weeks, he "attacked" his food with extreme prejustice, but that eventually subsided once he understood that there was no one to compete with. I also started (last week) to make him sit till I am ready for him to eat (finnish filling the bowl). The thing that bothers me is he "growls" when we touch / pet him while he is eating. Not a loud agressive growl, more of a "let me eat in peace" growl, but a growl none the less. The growl is more severe if I touch his rump or underside (belly). I attempt to correct him by lightly smacking his snout imediately after he growls and tell him "No" very firmly. This will usually lead to a louder growl, in which I then grab his snout, hold it close, and once gain, say "No" very firmly. This cat and mouse behavior usually lasts till he is done feeding, but most of the time, when he gets down to the last 5-8 bites, he is very quiet and does not growl.

Couple days though, when I grabbed his snout after the 5th time, he showed his teeth and tried to nip at me, obviously very irratated with me. =) I proceeded to "Alpha roll" him, and firmly tell him "No". 99% of the time when I "Alpha roll" him, he becomes submissive, turning his head away and going "limp". But this time, he did "nip" me. Not very hard, but puppy teeth are sharp and it did draw blood. I then gave him a very sharp whack on his rump while rolled, then placed my hand in front of his mouth as to say "go ahead, bite me if you think you are manly enough". He just snarled and turned his head and went limp (showing submission). I let him lie on his back for 30 seconds, rolled him back over. I waited a few seconds, then tapped his food bowl to let him know he could eat. He went back to eating, and I petted him again. He let out a slightly more aggresive growl, so he got another pop on the rump, his food taken away, and spent 10 minutes (time out) in the bathroom. I let him back to finnish his food later (what was left) and he was quiet and did not growl. This has been going on for 4 days now, and is starting to become a pattern.

Is this normal? Should I expect him to do this for a while? Will he grow out of it? Am I doing anything wrong?

Couple of things to note. I have 2 children (8yrs and 4 yrs), who love him and get along great with Keagan (other than the little puppy nips from time to time when Keagan wants to play rough, which we are trying to phase him out of). I unfortuantely played "rough" with him for a week when we first got him, realized why that was bad, and have been correcting him of this since (making good progress btw). He is very acceptible at learning commands ("sit", "stay", and "come" so far). He has shown no other signs of agression than this. I have taken every precaution to ensure that he knows that I am the Alpha male. After he is punished, I let him come to me, and wait for him to lick my ear and then rolled himself over exposing his belly. I truely believe Keagan knows and respects my status as Alpha male, it's just the growling while eating thing. Another thing is I refuse to "crate" him. I understand and respect some peoples view on it, I just personally feel it isn't acceptible for energetic dogs. He has the run of the bathroom and bedroom while we are gone, and does minimal damage during the day. He seems happy about that and so is my wife and I. :)

Other than that, I love the dog to death. I am very happy to be a rottie owner! Thanks for any helpful suggestions and comments.

Tj Tuck

**Couple of things I forgot to mention. Per suggestion of a friend, we tried keeping the bowl constantly full, hoping he would understand that he will always have food. I came to the conclusion that he would eat a 20 pound bag of food in one day if I let him. We tried this for a couple of days, and amazingly he ate 6 cups of food in one day (feed him twice a day), didn't get sick, his tummy got very round and he was lazy most of the day. So we promptly stopped that. We feed him at 6AM and 6PM, usually 2 cups both times. He also seems to be more irratatble if we feed him late.***

[Emily]

My dog was food agressive towards people when she was a little baby. Here is what we did to solve the people food agression:

1.. hand fed her at least part of her meal. we put her bowl on the counter and fed her some by hand to show her that we controlled the food.
2..while she ate we took the bowl up and talked to her in a happy voice then we gave it back w/a small treat added to it.
3.. after she was fine w/ 1 and 2 we started petting her and playing in her food bowl while she ate. When she was "nice" she got a small goodie from our hand.

She didn't like 2 or 3 at first but she has learned to let us do them w/out any fuss at all.

I know that it is very tempting to "pop" a dog for agressive actions but I don't think that it is the best sollution. maybe when your dog growles you could correct him in a less physicaly threatening manor. It is my understanding that the dog needs to respect you as alpha through training not physical strength.
Good luck, puppys can be very frustrating sometimes but it will get better.

[tuckt]

I can pick the food bowl up, I can stick my hands in and take food out, and I can even stick my head in the food bowl while he is eating and nudge him out of the way. None of these will cause Keagan to growl. It is only when I pet him, especially on the underside and rump that he starts to growl. My concern is for my 4 year old to walk by and pet the doggie while he is eating. If he is allowed to growl, where is the line drawn. In later years, will it be OK to bite instead of growl.

I do try less physical methods. A tug on the ear, tap the snout, or hold the mouth close. When these do not work in conjuction with stern verbal commands, extra actions have to be taken. As far as giving the dog a "pop", I feel that is quite healthy, as long as it is done with common sense and compassion. I do not come home and beat the dog out of frustration from work. I only "pop" the dog when I deem it completely necessary.

In nature, you never see the Alpha wolf give a subordinate a "stern barking to", there is biting and scratching involved when trying to convey importance. I will use stern verbal commands most of the time, but when he does not listen, he gets a pop on the rump. The dog needs to understand, just like children, when mom and daddy say something; they mean it, because it is for your protection. And when I personally didn’t listen to my mom, I got popped as well. Same goes for my children and my pets. I am an equal opportunity rump popper. Spare the rod, spoil the child. :)

[Bruce Lanthier]

If you can remove the bowl, touch the food, etc. and not elicit a growl I would suggest just not petting him while he eats. I'm not sure why you feel you have to pet him while he eats. there is leadership and there is oppressive leadership. Teach your 4 yr. old child not to pet him while he eats. An "alpha" would not lick (pet) another dog while eating , he would allow him the diginity of eating without harassment. As far as hitting your dog I would not recommend that. There are MUCH better ways to exhibit leadership and instill trust than hitting a dog. I suggest reading this thread -
http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sho...threadid=10206

[Burns]

there are many threads regarding feeding suggestions. as a rule feed the dog at a consistent time(s) daily and give him/her about 15 minutes to finish. use it or loose it; he'll learn.

about 'popping' your dog, i just don't agree. there are many other more effective and safer methods of correction. this 'popping', 'pulling', and 'swatting' will eventually elicit even more undesirable and/or dangerous behaviors.

food agression is not an unusual problem, i suggest you contact a reputable trainer. and please continue to post your questions/concerns

[Judi W]

I agree with Bruce. I have never understood why some people feel the need to harrass their poor dogs while they are eating. Picking up the bowl, taking the food away, simply bothering the dog in every way they can conjure. Good heavens, I would think they might have better things to do and this sort of thing can lead an otherwise peaceful dog to believe they are indeed right to be concerned about someone taking away their dinner because experience shows them it happens and regularly! If the dog behaves badly when someone is even near, then I would embark on a desensitation program of teaching the dog that people are going to be going about their business in the vicinity of their dinner table, but that entails no threat. This takes time if you have a dog that has been bothered to death while trying to have dinner, but it works. I've never had a food guarding problem, but then I put the food down and go about my business while the dogs go about their business of eating dinner. Occasionally I'll stop by to add some scrapings from the dinner plates (welcomed by the dogs), but other than that, they eat (side by side) and get on with their lives. They don't bother each other's bowls either so experience has taught them there is no need for guarding against each other either.

I see no reason why a child cannot be taught to let the dog eat in peace. After all, I hope you do not allow the dog to harrass the children when they are eating do you? Of course not. Even the youngest child should understand the recipocity of that respect.

[Goniella]

I agree with Judi, if someone was to continously pester me,smack my nose,roll me over and smack my rump while I ate i would growl too.

It shouldnt be that hard to teach your child not to touch Keagan while he is eating. My rottie has passed on but my 3 year old daughter who was 1 and half when we got him learned quickly not to mess with Bear while he was eating.

It doesnt sound like your dog is food agreesive so much as he doesnt want to be touched while eating, if youc an take the bowl put your hand in the bowl etc. I am by no means a trainer by I would think you might would actually cause a food aggression problem by treating him in this manner while he eats

[TwitEm]

I'd growl too if someone wanted to pat my rump while eating Seriously, I agree with Judi et al.--not necessary to harass a dog while eating, taking bowl away, etc. So far, have never had a food aggressive dog, and have usually fed two dogs together in the kitchen while I am bustling about. I did start out hand feeding part of every meal and/or letting the puppies lick baby chicken off my fingers beginning from day l at 8-9 weeks. Have never smacked a dog on the snout, or forced it to close its mouth. For me, teaching puppies basic command, sit before getting anything from me seems to work---maybe I've not had the most dominant dogs in the world, but both the Rottie I lost and the 11 month old Rottie I have KNOW i AM Alpha. The more I train them, the more Alpha I become. Have never been growled or snapped at by any dog I have ever had--Rottie,
German shepherd, lab or Golden retriever. TwitEm

[Austins_mum]

Hi there,

In my opinion, the ones responsible for this behaviour are the breeder and yourself. Breeders should (again, in my opinion) condition pups from a young age, to be touched while eating, have ears looked at without to much fuss, teeth check, clip nails, etc. All of my pups are familiar with being fussed with from a young age and must learn to accept this. Second, you are contributing to the problem by smacking and causing a negative experience while the dog is trying to eat in peace. I suggest that if you cannot repremand your pup properly,in a non-abusive way, then seek the help of a professional trainer. At this age you should be looking into pup classes to attend with your pup to help socialization skills and the like. If you continue this form of disipline, you will likely have more problems as time goes buy. Rather than gaining the respect that you deserve, you are teaching fear and resentment. This is my opinion and experience, as I am a trainer, do with it what you will. Positive re-enforcment is the only way in my books.