Crate nightmare!!

[Jarose]

Hi again -
First of all thank you to all who responded to my first post on contemplating a rottie
puppy. I decided to go for it. I got him Mon. afternoon - he is 6 months old and I named him Rufus. He is a lively handful and I love him already. Anyway he came from a breeder who was referred to me by another
owner. In the 2 days I have had him I have accomplished getting him to pee outside, got him to not howl at night by bringing his crate in the room with me and we are 85% trained on doing the steps (he obviously never went up and down them before.) Of this I am pleased. However my BIG concern is the fact that every time I've gone to work so far he crapped in his crate and beleive me it was not a pretty sight or job to come home to. Tonite was the worst - it was everywhere. I did not show him I was pissed but I firmly bathed him and did not give him any extra attention.
We went out and he peed and I praised him for that and came in and cleaned the mess. I've noticed that he did not crap in his crate at night when I was present - only when I left. He also will not crap outside (yet). He has done it inside the house on the rug as well. (Did not pee in the house).
First of all I know he needs an adjustment
time and it's only been two days. But I
thought dogs usually don't do this in their crate thus part of the reason for crating!!
The breeder gave me the crate and I don't think it is too big. To be honest I don't
think it is a matter of him not being able to hold it - it seems like a behavior/emotional issue. Am I being to impatient or thinking too much? I just need
some suggestions on how to break this habit
ASAP. Incidentally he had crapped three times today prior to the crate incident and I did not feed him before I left so....
He is following me everywhere already and I spend alot of time with him when I am home
but he really bums when I leave - even if I just go upstairs!! I don't mind picking a few turds off the rug but scrubbing ****
that is allover the place has got to stop!!
HELP!!! Thanks!!!

[rottmommie]

how are you feeding him, and WHAT are youfeeding him??? A DOG HAS A NATURAL INSTINCT TO POO AFTER HE EATS, SO DONT FEED HIM THEN CRATE HIM....AND DONT FEED HIM GARBAGE FOOD. ONLY FEED 2 TIMES A DAY THREE IF IT IS A PUP, AND FOLLOW THE PACKAGE INSTRUCTION. DONT LET HIM FREE FEED "whenever". THERE ARE A LOT OF POSTS ABOUT FOOD....WHAT TO FEED ETC. SEEMS LIKE HE GOES A LOT TO ME, AND IT SEEMS MUCH TOO SOFT FROM YOUR DESCRIPTION.

[Hope]

How long are you keeping your young pup in the crate??

[LisaS]

Are you feeding him the same food as he had before - if not, he could have an upset stomach from a food change or even from a water change from the breeders tap water to your own - and when you get cramps, you know, you just let go ! if it's not a food change issue...
Get yourself a newspaper and roll it up - when your dog messes in the house, take the roll and firmly hit yourself in the head while saying "I forgot to watch my dog - I forgot to watch my dog" http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif
All kidding aside, he doesn't know anything about being inside, so you have to watch him every second he is inside, and the minute he even sniffs the ground or otherwise looks like he's gonna squat -- outside he goes.
Setting up a routine can help - feed at the same time(s) every day, weekends included - hopefully his elimination will also get on a predictable schedule.
Look for clues this weekend - maybe he has to go 2 hrs after breakfast or 30 mins after a brisk walk - and that coincides with when he is usually crated cuz you are gone ... but nighttime isn't within these parameters so all is fine.
Please don't think your dog is getting back at you or being spiteful ... they're just not wired like that...for a really interesting read, pick up a copy of Jean Donaldson's book The_Culture_Clash for some great insights into dog behavior and how we humans tend to attribute human motives to canine behavior.

[This message has been edited by LisaS (edited September 07, 2000).]

[rottmommie]

I AGREE THAT DOGS DONT GET EVEN, THEY DO HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR THOUGH./// BUT THEY DONT HOLD GRUDGES LIKE US STUPID HUMANS DO.

[Codys ma]

Cody did this as a puppy. I would crate him, leave for 2 hours, come back and his crate would be covered in poop, not to mention him and the general vicinity around the crate. After a few days, I contacted the trainer who said to try a safe room. I did, the bathroom, left for a few hours and came home to a bathroom and dog covered in poop. It took me about 3 hours to clean it off of every single nook and cranny in there.

It's nerves. He hated that crate (and still does to this day). One, wait it out. I bought another crate, changed crates at lunch and came home at night to wash both crates and the dog. That lasted for about 2 weeks and it hasn't happened since.

Two, do some things that make him feel much more at ease in his crate. Leave toys and blankets, make sure it is big enough to turn around and lie down but it's not so big he can go potty in one corner and sleep in the other. Keep the crate door open and drop treats in there when you aren't going to leave. Let him wander in and out of the crate freely, then only close the door for a few seconds and work your way up. Leave music or a tv on when you're gone. Try to come home every couple hours.

Most importantly, DONT GET MAD! http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif I know it's hard when you're tired and come home to such a lovely vision, but he had been through such a trauma (at least that's the way he sees it) and yelling will create more anxiety.

I hope this works. Have patience, and good luck!

Kim

[This message has been edited by Codys ma (edited September 08, 2000).]

[Jarose]

I feed him what the breeder did - dry Nutros adult large breed - he gets 8 cups a day split into 2 feedings. Incidentally today is the first day he did not do this. I have
watching him carefully. I talked to the breeder and she said it is all part of the transition. I never yell at him. I just don't want to have to deal with this for a long time. So hopefully today was a step towards progress. What makes it a bit trickier is I work a revolving schedule which
is basically the same each week but daily the hours vary somewhat. So I guess he will have to adjust to that. I appreciate all the advice and that book sounds like a good idea! I will keep you posted...

[Jarose]

By the way he has been crated no more that 6
hours at a time so far and at 6 months the
breeder said she had him crate trained and would be ok for like even 8 hours. I work close and have come home like every 4 hours. Today he was crated for 6 hours and no mess - go figure!!!

[zbear22]

Hi just reading your post is it really 8 cups a day? That is way to much food. MY full grown dogs get 4 cups of nutro lamb and rice a day and they are 110 and 75 pds. Read the back of the nutro bag and it will tell you by weight how much per day to feed. I would say no more than 2 probably. This food (NUTRO) has hardly any extras so the dogs get all the vitamins and minerals from a smaller amount.

------------------
Bear and Delilahs Mommy
Love my Rotties

[rottmommie]

I THOUGHT THAT EIGTH CUPS WAS WAY TOO MUCH TOO!! AND FROM EXPERIENCE I KNOW A DOG WILL GOBBLE ALL THAT IS GIVEN TO HIM JUST BECAUSE HE CAN!!! MY DOG IS THAT AGE AND EATS ABOUT 4 CUPS A DAY, SAME KIND OF FOOD.

[Jarose]

You guys are right!!! The breeder recommended 8!!! I will double check with her today. Yes the bag does say 4 for his weight (40lbs). I'll say that sounds like way too much!!!

[AngelBunny]

Jarose:

8 cups of food a day--Lord have mercy! Our girls--9 mo old foster & 3 yo--each eat abt 3 cups of Wellness/day, divided into 2 meals. Please keep in mind that most Rotties are stomachs on legs--they're eating machines and won't say no to food.