Frustrated - Rottie still won't get into the car!

[Kathryn99]

Dear Friends,
I'm hoping someone can help me. I have a 4-5 year old Rottie that we have had for a year. The SPCA thought he may have been abused. Well of course he is the most lovable dog I have ever had. However he won't get in the car. For the last three months I have been using the method described on this board (by Orville I think) to get the dog used to the car gradually. First, treats by the car then closer etc etc. Well the method works and I did get him in and actually got the door shut (for about a week we just sat there) Then I started the car and drove a little bit and got right out and praised him and loved him up. The next day he won't even get in the car. The first time this happened I went back to the very beginning and got him back in after about a week. My question is:
1. Is this ME? Am I doing something or not doing something? Is he actaually picking up on my vibes that this isn't really a game?
2. Will I have to go back to square one each time ? Should I NOT go back to square one and just take him to the car and if he won't get in just close up and come inside? I did that one night and he couldn't believe it .. I had to order him inside. He was still standing by the car! Like... she can't be serious!
3. Was he traumatized so much by a car ride that he will never get in easily?
Any insight, help or reality check would be helpful.
Kathryn

[Tammy Brumfield]

Kathryn,
I have a 1 yr. old rescue that was afraid of the bathtub. I guess he had never been in one before. Treats weren't enough to talk him into that thing, and water that wasn't in a wading pool or water bucket was just too weird for him. I started feeding him in the tub with his bowl, then hand feeding to slow him down, then with water in a bowl, then with a trickle, and finally with a couple of inches of standing water. It took about 2 weeks, but he has had a bath in the tub. Anyway, it took me all this to say maybe yours needs more than little treats too.

Tammy

[FredAl]

The next time you get him in the car, drive to a fun place (for him), like a park or a pet store, and make his experience there pleasant and fun. Then do it a few more times to condition him into thinking that car rides mean going to pleasant and fun places.

You might want to use a Vari-Kennel to take him out for car rides -- safer and more secure for him.

[Michael C.]

Is it possible that the previous owner took him somewhere in a vehicle and dropped him off? If that is a possibility, then he is probably afraid that you might do the same.

[Orville Story]

Or you may even just drive around the block and back. Something is going on to make him avoid the car. You did the right thing by taking a step backwards. This will be a process like in all training two steps forward and one step backwards. Just stay with it, and don't get discouraged. Realize that it may take some time and just because one day he jumps in does not mean the problem is solved. Keep up the good work.

[Kathryn99]

Thank you all for the help. I used to think he was dumped (and kicked and yelled at)but now I'm wondering if it is more a fear of the space itself. Maybe he was forced into a crate alot? This is a dog who is absolutely petrified of GETTING IN the car. Sometimes I feel so bad watching him he is so frightened and yet he wants the treat. He loves to watch the car move and gets pretty excited when he sees a car coming toward him so he not afraid of "the car". The few times I have had him in the car (by shear luck and quick reflexes on my part ) he likes it... sits down and almost relaxes. And he LOVES to put his nose out the window. But we regress to square one right after. I have made those few trips fun.. lots of hugs and treats while my husband drives. I don't dare let him out for fear I wouldn't get him back in. It never occurred to me that he wouldn't get in again so my expecatation is the issue, I guess, not his fear of the car. I have renewed determination. This is taking forever! Your help is sincerely appreciated!
Kathryn

[Michael C.]

Kathryn99,

Have you tried to get in the car first so he wont think you are putting them in there to be left alone? Just wondering.

[Kathryn99]

What I do now is I get into the back of the station wagon and my husband will get in the driver's seat. We'll coax him in with treats and a whistle. He knows the car is full of treats and toys. Right after this last "ride" he would not get in unless I was inside ( and I had to be all the way in right up by the front seat)since I shut the door on him from the outside when we took the "ride". He knows that if I am on the outside or seated by the edge I can shut the hatch. He is very aware of where I am and where my arms are in relation to the door. This supercedes anything else that's going on... treats, hugging, toys. If my husband is treating him and I go for the door he's out like a shot. When he is in the car he will turn around and look up at the door. We trained for a long time on just the hatch closing and opening with him sitting outdide and getting treats. He doesn't like it at all. He cowers and walks away. But he will come back. I have tried to have him get in the side doors but he won't. If he seems particularly nervous I'll open all the doors. The last three days he jumped right in and laid down and we just sat there giving him treats and petting him. Of course there was no way we could shut the door since we were inside and he knew that! I told my husband I needed a remote control! Any movement at all and he is out of the car. I let him jump out and he will get right back in. Maybe I should create the noise and a little confusion instead of trying to make everything so quiet and calm? I could let him jump out a few times then try the stay command. Then he wouldn't think it ws so unusual when I made the movement to shut the door?

[Judi W]

Do have him wearing a leash and collar so he can't bolt or run away where he is simply reinforcing his own fear behavior. You are trying to reward him for the good, but he is rewarding himself by fleeing when he wants. Remove that option but continue on with what you are doing.

[Kathryn99]

Yes, I have him always collared when we are outside. And he is on a leash. I have not forced the issue of him staying in the car. I guess I thought he should be able to come and go so he would know he COULD come and go and nothing would happen to him. I had not thought of it as reinforcing the fear but in thinking about it and watching him last night that is happening. The least little noise or movement and he's out! This is one very scared dog when he is in there. I am going to back to training with me outside the car. It's a logistical nightmare with me inside trying to move to get the door shut. Plus I think this will show I am in control of the situation and (hopefully) that there is nothing to be afraid of. By the way he will NOT come into the bathroom/laundry room ,any small room if he senses there is no way out the other end. So I'm thinking it's not the "car" it's the "dead end". If I continued/ added a training session in one of those rooms would that help or confuse the issue? Again many thanks for your assistance.

[Judi W]

Yes, do tighten up on your obedience. Dogs get to make their choices only within certain bounds. If they are making incorrect choices, then it is your job as the leader to chose for them. Right now he is indulging in the "I wanted to leave, so I did" routine. I often have very fearful dogs in training classes. They are not allowed to bolt and run when the urge takes them. They are first taught to maintain a sit in proximity to what they are worried about, and they are corrected for disobeying the sit command, not for being fearful. After many experiences with that, they discover that although they might not like being approached, they do not die of it. By then end of an 8 week session, they are even able to do a novice stand for exam. They are desenitized gradually, but with the focus on obedience to the handler. They are told "good dog" for doing their sit at the handler's side, they are not stroked and babied for being afraid when there is no danger (that indicates approval from the handler)

Allowing him to run away from things that worry him is dangerous to his safety and greatly limits what you can do with one another. Stroking a dog that is behaving in a silly fashion indicates to him that you approve of his behavior. Does this make sense to you? Practice, practice, practice your obedience. Forget the car for the time being as it has become too big in both your minds. Then practice that obedience going into the bathroom or other places you see him being silly about. When you leave those areas, do NOT make a big, "we've escaped" thing of it. Continue that obedience into and out of and away from the areas before you release him. Don't give excessive praise as that stimulates his nerves rather than calming him. Be very calm and matter-of-fact about things. After he understands that going where you instruct is not optional, then move back to the car. It will be easier for you to control him in the rooms than in the car, so master that first.

I hope these ideas will help you as this is taking waaaay too long to solve and I believe it is important.

[Kathryn99]

Yes, this makes perfect sense! I have been trying to make this car "training" fun because he was soooooo frightened. I didn't want to correct him because I thought he would think it was work! That's silly now that I think of it since he loves the training we do with the ball and even the stay/sit work we do. Ok! Wish me luck!