Crate Training

[JacksonBrowne]

Hi,

I have 2 rotties, very obedient but the problem is that they cause destruction to my house when I'm not around. Been reading up on crate training. The things with it I'm not quite sure is:

I've read that you can't keep pups in for more than 4 hours. How is it possible when pup owner goes to sleep? Surely for those who uses this method of training must sleep more than 4 hours? My rotties are 14 mths and 9 mths. I sleep between 8-10 hrs a day. Work 9am-5:30pm. Able to spend maybe 4 hrs with the dogs a day ( Weekend more )including 2 x 30min walks a day. Is it advisable for me to use crate training if they will be locked up 17 hrs a day?? Would they go crazy???
Another thing I'm not sure about crate training is that what do dogs do for water?? The cage is so confined?

Please advice me if I should use this method??

Chris

[Karen J. Reece]

I have been wondering this same thing. I have seen several messages from people saying that you should never keep them crated for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time and then others will say that they crate theirs at night. I certainly sleep longer than that.
I started crate training Mac a week ago and he is left app. 5 1/2 hours 4 days a week (never at night). He is doing great. He is 15 weeks old.

[Karen J. Reece]

Oops. After re-reading your message (haven't had my cup of coffee yet) I would never leave a dog in a crate for 17 hours (nowhere near that long). Sounds terribly cruel. Maybe you could get a dog kennel (fenced in area, etc.) As for the water question, a puppy guide to house training I have says NO food or water. I put water in with Mac but no food and have had no problems yet. My older dog has food and water all day with no problems (he also has full run of the house).

[Echowe]

Wow, 8-10 hours a day of sleep!!! I envy you.
Crating time depends on the age of puppy. A rule of thumb is the length of time = to the hours of crating time. Some said you can add an hour. ie... 4 months old puppy can stay in crate 4-5 hours.
Here is the bad news.... IF you have a young puppy who can't stay in crate overnight, you just HAVE to get up and let the puppy out. Nobody said raising a puppy is easy. It will get easier as the puppy aged. Since your puppies are 14 and 9 months, they can actually stay in their crate overnight. Making sure they empty their bladder right before going in the crates helps! My puppy is 6.5 months old. Lucky for her that her mom only sleeps about 5.5 hours on work days so she doesn't stay in crate that long. During the day she runs around with my 2 year old rottie in garage and side yard. I am gone 12 hours on work days so leaving them in crates isn't a good idea. Some the members here leave their dogs in crate for 8 hours. It is probably better to have a larger outdoor kennel if you are gone too long.

[This message has been edited by Echowe (edited August 31, 2000).]

[WorkinDogz]

Crating the dogs (especially older dogs such as yours) for the 8 hours while you're at work should cause no problems. If you are unable to make it home at lunch to let them out to potty; I would only leave a small amount of water in the crate. (they make double clips--looks like the clips on leashes; only double "clip" part to which I hook a stainless steel 1 qt. pail to when I'm going to be gone an extended time)

As for using the crate at night; IMHO it would depend if the dogs are destructive at night. If they are; they can be crated.
If not; then no need to crate them.

17 hours at one stretch is unreasonable. But a several hour break in between crating isn't cruel.

As for crates being confining and small. You aren't housetraining a baby puppy; so the crate can be as large as your house can tolerate. They make some HUGE crates http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif Of course if you are traveling; the dog should only be able to stand up, turn around and lay down comfortably. (that's how to correctly size a dog to a crate for travel) but in the house....hey...make it as big as you want since you're not using it for housetraining; just confining. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

[LisaS]

or do you have a safe (dog proof) room (like an extra bedroom) where you can confine them during the day?

[Teena]

Well, let me tell u my sad story. Then you might chnage your mind about not using crates.
My son brought home this BEAUTIFUL, extremly loving rottie puppy. I feel in LOVE the minute i layed eyes on him. His name was Ozzie.
We felt it was cruel to lock them up in a crate. So, we left him with free roam of the fenced backyard & garage while we were away. Everything was fine for a few weeks & life was grand! Ozzie was learning basic commands & doing real good.
Then one day i played with him, hugged him & put him out to go grocery shopping. I returned home 2 hours later....it's still hard to think about this..
He was dead. He had gotten his head stuck down in a plastic cup & was unable to get it off. This horrible feeling of gloom, guilt & heartbreak hung in the air at our house.
Very costly lesson, if you can't watch them crate them! Ozzie would be alive if i had.
Even when they are loose with you , watch them. Puppies put EVERYTHING in their mouth. If a few hours alone in the crate, bothers you consider what else might happen, not crated. ;(
Our new pup which is 10 weeks old now, is very comfortable with crates. He has a HUGE wire one now for inside. However, at first we just used a plastic one.
Small pups are like babies. They wake up many times during the night & need to be let out. In a few weeks tho, he'll sleep all night.
He's never in the crate for more than 4-5 hours during the day. One of us comes home for lunch to let him out. He's fine & happy.
Teena

[moonbeam]

Teena, your story saddened me. I have a pup that's almost 12 weeks old and she's crated. A friend comes by at lunch to let her out while we're at work. I feel bad about her being crated but also know the dangers of leaving her outside even in a fenced yard. Not just death or injury, but theft also. If the puppy was stolen all my life I'd wonder whatever became of her and if (probably more like how) she'd been abused.

Crating is best. If you are gone too long at one stretch perhaps look into doggy day care.

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To read my dog Cerberus' story and learn more about cancer in dogs see: http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Y.../cerberus.html

[JacksonBrowne]

Thanks for the responses.

Now I'm considering having a huge crate which can cater for 2 dogs. Maybe block part of my garage off. It will be approximately 1 1/2 metre x 2 1/2 metre. Wouldn't that still be cruel where they cannot run around freely in the backyard?? Especially in all dog books they made a mention breed such as rottie requires big backyard. Also how long should I use the crating method ? Until they're mature? That will be another year or so.

[Echowe]

Actually I don't think my dogs 'run' around all day long while I am gone at work. I think they play with each other for awhile and then...SLEEP most of the day.

[WorkinDogz]

Jackson:

I understand your concern and it would be a valid one if you simply tossed your dogs in a crate; let them out to potty; then tossed them back in until the next potty time.

ANYTHING (crates, leashes, FOOD) CAN be abused. Crating your dogs; keeping them safe from harm while you are away isn't abusive; it's responsible.

I personally believe that any breed of dog can be owned in...let's say...an apartment IF the owner is willing to DO WHAT IT TAKES; rain or shine to provide proper exercise and interaction with their dog.

Many books suggest large breed dogs have a big backyard; but I'm willing to bet that SOME LARGE BREED DOGS with little or NO yard; but with a COMMITTED OWNER, get more exercise than some dogs with 5 acres at their disposal. Owner interaction. It makes all the difference in the world.

[Michael C.]

We live on a 1/4 acre lot. Our big yard is quite small, but it is big enough to play fetch. We take our girl for atleast 2 walks and sometimes 3 walks a day depending on weather. Today was a rough day, it rained all day long and Sasha drove me nuts. She had so much energy because she could not go out. So I decided, what the heck, and took her for a run around the block in the rain!!! Neither one of us seemed to mind.

I used to sleep atleast 8 hours, but once we got our dog, I cut that time down. Now I sleep from 5-6 hours a night and I do it for my dog! How pitiful! It is very important to me that my dog has a good life and I am willing to sacrifice some things like sleep and a clean house for her. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif

[Tenaj]

I live in a mobile home in a mobile home park. No fenced yard in what little of a yard I have. My guys get walks daily and are allowed to run through the home when they choose (as long as it's not bedtime). They get to go at least once or twice a week to a local park with a large fenced ballpark area and run to their hearts content. They love to play fetch at home and at the park. I also practice a form of search and rescue with teddy bears for my GSD and alot of their energy is in the mind form. We practice obedience at least twice daily also to keep them mentally awake. My two are in crates when I am gone and haven't suffered in the least bit becuase of it. http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/biggrin.gif

[missy kelly's mom]

I at one time thought that crating Missy when we first got her was cruel, but found out it was the best way to house break her. I was told that they will not mess where they sleep. She was going on 4 mos. old when we got her. Everytime she comes in from out doors she goes I-N , waits for her cookie, comes out and goes into the other room with her family. (Us)
The crate provides them protection. It is like a safehaven to them. I was told about one instance where a puppy got ahold of electical wires and got electricuted.
I do not put any toys in with her while she is in it, I always have a fear she is going to choke. She has her comfy cushy as her bed. She never ever chewed on it. Thank Goodness. We even use the crate for a 5 min.
time out when the occasion arises, Not too often though. We thank God for the Crate, and you will to.

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Missy Kelly's Mom{Pam}
Missy {CGC, Therapy Dog}

[JacksonBrowne]

Hi all,

First, the idea of having bigger crate...maybe it's not the best idea for me because I know my younger one will poo inside.

I know crating is good method for most of you who responded to my message because it seems like you have more time to spend with the kids. As for me...maximum 4 hrs a day. That 4hrs I'm not sure its quality time.

Allowing the dogs to follow you while you do your normal daily routine such as cooking, eating, watching TV regards as anything???
Or spending times with dogs mean, playing fetch, training and walking them???

What kind of interaction should I have??? Can someone give me an example of quality or ideal ways to spend time with your dogs??

HAving jsut 1 hr of exercise...should I be using a crate??

Chris