Training Methods

[big d]

WORKINGDOGZ,BOY YOU HAVE SUCH GREAT KNOWLEDGE
OF TRAINING DOGS,I WOULD LOVE TO SEE YOU AND YOUR DOG INTERACT SOMEDAY.HOW MANY DOGS HAVE YOU TITLED,I BET ALOT?I LIVE IN THE MICHIGAN AREA AND I WOULD LOVE TO COME SEE YOU TRIAL YOUR DOG SOMEDAY.WILL YOU BE SHOWING AT A TRIAL SOON OR SOMETHING?I DON'T KNOW WHAT AREA YOU LIVE IN BUT MAN WOULD I LOVE TO SEE YOU AND YOUR DOGS AT WORK?SO GOOD LUCK AND GREAT POST,I CAN TELL YOUR A HELL OF A TRAINER.

[WorkinDogz]

Actually Mark; I am a good trainer. (I'll let others call me great; I don't like to toot my own horn )

You'll be seeing me on the field shortly my boy. VERY shortly. You'll recognize me, I promise

As for titles; many. Including a few 0-3's. Somday you too will be able to say the same! Keep working Mark! ALL THE BEST to you too!!

[Dei]

Marvellous thread -- this one's a keeper for sure.

I agree with you but if I may add to it: since there are many ways of acheiving the same thing, it's important to be able to tell when some method isn't agreeing with your dog. Or yourself. Yourself, because you're the one who has to live with your dog.

I've never gone to a trainer before, but that has everything to do with there being few to no competent dog trainers where we lived, so trail and more painful error than I care to admit to -- major envy points for those with access to dog trainers -- is the way I had to learn.

For me, my definition of a good training method is one that produces a dog that works willingly, correctly, quickly and eventually without physical restraint. Personally, I go big time for using the least harsh method that will work (but it has to work). And for me, a training method is working when a) I understand what and why I'm doing what I am (and I have sworn never to try any method that I have a bad gut reaction about), b) the dog is absorbing what I'm trying to teach without scads of confusion and isn't dreading lessons and c)it's not creating new problems. If that's not the case, something needs to change.

Case in point: as a pup, Pepper (she was a GSD, not that it matters) was somewhat growly about her food. Since I'd just bought and read a new training book (groan from my dad: ANOTHER? You already have 14) in which the trainer recommended a scruff shake for things like this, I tried one. She went ballistic. What did I do? There is going through with scruff shakes as a way of life, but I tossed the book into the corner and went to insisting that a) she sat patiently before she got any food and b) every mouthful would come directly from my hands (we used to hand-feed all our dogs; because she was a young puppy she'd had a bowl to eat from) which worked fine and it carried over beautifully to learning other things -- she was one of the fastest-learning dogs I ever had the pleasure of knowing.

So if there's anything I wanted to say, it's that know your dog, learn to recognize what works best for IT and put that over training philosophies and dogma.


Dei.

[WorkinDogz]

ABSOLUTELY DEI!!!!

No one but YOU has to live with what is produced in training. No trainer has to spend the next 10 years with a dog that goes through their classes or is trained by them. Some don't care if their own dogs work out of fear. Suits them just fine.

Doesn't have to be that way though; and shouldn't be.

Trusting one's gut is a critical part of training. Much like a good helper reading a dog in bitework. The dog speaks volumes; if you only watch and listen.

[Sandy Caruso]

I'm impressed with the topic, the responses, and knowledge you have Workindogz, VERY impressed!

Sandy

[WorkinDogz]

Oh go on with you Sandy! :::blush::::

Just when you thought the thread was over...another installment in the Training process pops up

After Selecting Your Trainer

Ok..now you've selected your trainer. Methods, personality clicked. You liked what you saw and you're raring to go.

If you're like most dedicated dog owners; you read every book in print about the breed you own, training, rearing etc.

I don't think there is any book about any breed that doesn't contain a section on "Training".

It's GOOD to read these books....BUT....problems with YOUR OWN training can surface in spite of a trainers best efforts.

My observations have included this (based on a lot of years in dogs): People tend to lean toward "instant gratification". They'll do something a certain way for a day or two; and if they don't see "results" quickly enough; the method must not work and they *switch*. Trainers nightmare. Handlers with a Training Library.

Training a dog via ANY method takes TIME. Patience is indeed a virtue in dogs. Some dogs are "fast burners" and learn very quickly what you want from them. Others take longer; need more repitition and a very CLEAR and CONSISTANT handler.

Point of this additional tid bit of info: Don't ASSUME that if the dog doesn't work to on-command status in a week; that the method is faulty. You'd be surprised how many times the "light bulb" comes on in a dogs mind after WEEKS (not days....WEEKS) of CONSISTANT training.

[Mick Trainer]

WorkinDogz,

Great add on.

Also add to that, that most people when training their first dog do not as yet have the timing right when doing the training to achieve the best results out of it. If you are having trouble your trainer should be able to recognise this and help you. Also be prepared to ask your trainer for a little extra help or advice. No decent trainer should turn away any customer that is really willing to help themselves.

Also if you are having trouble with something your trainer has said go back and ask advice on it once again. There is more than one way to train a dog and good trainers have plenty of tricks up their sleeve.

Mick.

[missy kelly's mom]

Boy! Did I Enjoy reading all of this info! I Am a 1st time dog owner. The people who live next door from us own a Rotty. Getting to know Hocus {8yr. old male] made me fall in love with the breed. That's why I Have Missy now. We got Missy when she was going on 4 mo. old. When she was six mo. old we took her to obedience class. We went through Beginners, then to novis. But before we started her in school, we checked it out, observed the class. We had a chance to speek to the teacher. We told them we have a Rotty.etc. I found out just how popular the Rot is as we were going through the class. During the "graduation" the last session I got really ticked off. There were some dogs in Begginers that should not have been there, and it seemed to me that it was unfair that a dog that had prior training should not have been in that class. Please correct me if I am wrong in my way of thinking. Missy did everything great except the long sit-stay. She layed down. She came in out of 24 dogs, 7th. When it came to the "prize" award, it went to another breed, I won't say what breed. There were things that I did, being the handler, that were pointed out during our time on the floor, that was wrong. We were the 2nd ones to go. At no time was I told not to use hand signal and voice command. Not told before the test started. So Missy and I lost points. The teacher then told everyone not to do this after we were done. I felt at the time this was wrong. Then After the Obedience classes were done, and Missy was old enough to start agilty, we put her in school for that. Graduation session, Missy's turn, She did great. Then the trainers freind brought out her dog, that dog had some training before, was not in this class, ran through, and got first place. Where is the fairness?
I hope I am making sence to someone out there. Needless to say, I havent had enough experience with trails, or fun matches, It just did not seem fair to me. There was another time during class when Missy Just Would Not Do Anything, She lagged during off-leash. She just did'nt care to be there, and the teacher told me it was me. I was told smile try to have a good time. I don't know but there is a lot more I can say but I am already long winded. All I know is that while we were in school, they gave homework, Missy and I did ower homework, We would go for a walk and I would put her through the stuff they taught us, and she did good. She listens to both of us, My Husband and I, and I am very proud of her, she is a very loving Rotty to be around. All I think I am tring to say is ,I seen a lot of unfairness. I have a question now that needs to be answered by someone who knows the breed. Who can relate to the little problem I had. Should I take some more obedience classes, then try fun matches again? The place were we are learning agility has obed. classes and I should check it out. Do you think Missy is too old? I need a professional opinion on this. Input.

Missy Kelly's Mom

[frau]

Never too old!!

On Animal Planet's Petsburg USA they had a demonstration by the former (1998 I think) AKC Obediance champion, a 10 (ues TEN) year old Golden.

Old dogs DO learn new tricks. Not that that dog had started when it was 10. I intend to keep going the Gypsy as long as it makes the 2 of us happy!

Frau

[missy kelly's mom]

Frau: Thankyou for your reply. Please give me your opinion on the unfairness business.
Pam

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Missy Kelly's Mom{Pam}
Missy {CGC, Therapy Dog}

[WorkinDogz]

Forget "unfairness". Did you go to learn or win ribbons? If the class was successful for you in training your dog; who cares if you won "Most Improved" or "Best In Class".

If you desire ribbons....trial for your CD. That's when fairness counts and even then; you don't always get it.

Know when you leave the ring that YOU AND YOUR DOG did your very best and be comfortable with it. Training and trialing is for FUN not prizes

[missy kelly's mom]

Thank you:
It was great reading your message. It makes a lot of sense. We did ower very best and that is really all I expected from Missy. She is a very good girl. Very well mannered Rotty. She recieved a good amount of socializing during these classes. We keep the socializing going too. As a matter of fact, this evening we had her out in the yard, she was in the back yard with my Husband and we had a pizza delivered, well as soon as the car pulled in the driveway she came running to it, all I said to her was "Missy NO- Down. She stopped in her tracks and dropped. The pizza deliver looked at me and said " I wish my dog would do that." Of course, I was very proud of her. She does't have to have a ribbon or a prize. She already has two owners who love her, give a loving home. Oh' by the way, we use a thin choker, never had to buy a pincher {prong], I haven't had a problem with her pulling. She says right by my left side, and struts her stuff like a lady. I have had only compliments about how well she walks on lead. Thankyou again.



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Missy Kelly's Mom{Pam}
Missy {CGC, Therapy Dog}

[WorkinDogz]

That's the spirit

What ribbon compares to a dog responding to a command; knowing that you taught that behavior and having someone compliment you on your dog?

I used to give awards in my classes. After a couple of "unhappy" handlers asked "Why did that Golden get 'Best in Class'?? WE were far better!" I decided that I'll just stick with Certificates of Graduation. If you pass the course criteria...you get a certificate...if not; you get an invitation to come back to the next class...free of course. Problem solved

[Dogfolks]

We live in Costa Rica and have 6 dogs - our newest is Linda the Rottie. She is now 3 mos old and FANTASTIC!!

I imagine she gets plenty of "dog socialization" with our other family members and she is with us at work and around other people all day. We located a trainer who I instinctively liked and we are taking her there when she is 6 mos old. He would like her to stay there without any visits from us for the 1st 3wks then after that we can visit as much as we like. I have a few questions:

1. She sleeps with us right now is she going to be traumatized staying in a strange kennel for 3 wks? No warm "mommy and daddy" to snuggle with?

2. Has anyone heard of this method before?

3. Sorry but what is GSD?

Thanks!

[cdbeez]

Hey this question goes out to anyone of course but especially to WORKINDOGZ and MICK..You guys are great, I hope to meet you someday. This is my very first Rottie- she's 11 weeks old and her name is Parris. She's amazing so far and I know she won't be my last Rott. I really am looking forward to getting her titled but first things first...I don't want to screw her up in the early days. My father was a breeder and handler of German Shepards many years ago. He stopped when I was still small, but from everything I've heard and seen, he was AMAZING. I ask him for advice but he's leary about giving too much because he's relatively unfamiliar with Rotties. ANYWAY, here's the question, we live in Pensacola Florida right now, we're military so we'll be moving in about 6 months to San Diego. How do I find a good trainer to help me learn more than the basics?? I'm feeling pretty good about those, and my breeder says I'm a natural. (I don't know about that but I appreciate her confidence nonetheless) I can't seem to find any Rottie owners here in West Florida who I wouldn't (and please pardon me) call a "redneck". I say that because they are the types who breed indiscriminately for size not temperment and certainly not for the betterment of the breed. You know the kind who don't socialize their dog and then wonder why they turn into monsters. There may be some out there but I have yet to meet them. Please help me to set out on the right path. I have a beautiful, intelligent and wonderfully bred bitch who has enormous potential and I want to do her justice. I need other Rottie lovers!!
Thanks so much,
cdbeez

[This message has been edited by cdbeez (edited September 11, 2000).]