Where should the pup be fixated during "stay"?

[aldelgreco]

Dude, Rots are so smart.
My 3-month old learned "stay" in a matter of minutes and can already sit there and stay for as long as i command in the sit or down position, even with her favorite treat (havarti cheese...what a creep : ) right there in front of her nose. Of course, I haven't made her stay for more than like 15 or 20 seconds yet, but she just doesn't budge.
I can even get on the other side of the room, throw the cheese towards her and sometimes even have it hit a paw, etc. without her going after it.

I thought I was doing great until i thought of something.
When I command her to stay, it is always right before she gets presented with the treat she is "staying" for, so when she is "staying" she is always, 100% of the time, fixated entirely on the treat. she doesn't even look at me, just focuses on the treat and waits for the click from the clicker to release the given position.

I cant start with formal training yet because of a parvo scare here in austin for puppies, so i am trying my best to do it on my own until she gets her 4th round of shots next month. That is why i am looking for help here, as usual.

Should she be focused on me during "stay" or is it OK that she is entirely fixated on the treat? Maybe it is something that evolves as they get "better" at it?

[damp]

The ideal is… that the dog focus on you / the handler when it is under command… waiting and ready for the next command or for “free”.
However I think you expect and demand way too much from a 3 months old pup!!!!

Let her be a pup!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[moondog]

What you've actually begun teaching her is to mark a target (the treat). That usually comes later, but it's great she's caught on so young.

You can continue what you're doing since she's caught on, but I would change your position so that you're standing next to her while she's waiting to be released to the treat, and (following the command to stay) I would give it the command word "mark". When she looks at it, say "Get it!!" and release her for the treat.

If you want to face her during the stay, instead of putting a treat down on the ground, put it between your teeth (still visible) and following the command word "stay", give her a new command word "watch". She'll be watching your face because that's where the treat is. When she catches on that "watch" means look at your face, still hold the treat between your teeth, but cover it with your lips so it's not visible and then reward her with it when she follows the "watch" command. You then reinforce the "watch" command by standing facing her, ask her to "watch" and while she is, take the treat out of your mouth and hold it (visible) in your hand with your arm extended out to the side. At first she'll watch the treat, but hold out and just wait. When it doesn't come, she'll look back at your face......then she gets a "WooHoo, Puppy!!" AND the treat! Then you can ask for the "watch" while she's in different positions and proximities t (sitting next to you, sitting across the room, in a down next to you, in a down across the room, etc).

Sounds like you're having fun training this little genius!! Keep EVERYTHING a GAME at this point, and have fun with her!

[aldelgreco]

Originally Posted by damp

The ideal is… that the dog focus on you / the handler when it is under command… waiting and ready for the next command or for “free”.
However I think you expect and demand way too much from a 3 months old pup!!!!

Let her be a pup!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i am. i wouldn't do it if she wasn't constantly "asking" me to play games.
if you think i am going too far, than let me know...like i said, i am winging it here on books, DVDs, internet and help from people like NishasMom until i can get her into formal training....
she will come bug me and act a little wild, and i will ask her "you wanna learn?!" to redirect, and then she will almost always do the most hilarious little growl/bark thing while she is running around wagging her tail and go directly to the area of the kitchen where i keep the clicker and treats and just stand there waiting with her booty wagging like a little jitterbug. lol
I would think that as long as she is presenting me the opportunities like that at this age that i should take advantage of it. She isn't like that all the time and is VERY selective about when she is "open" to learning.
If she's not into it, I couldn't teach her a thing, even if i wanted to. she has her own little agenda around here. hope she never uses her smarts against me, because i can already see her being a bitchy teen : )
The most i will do is 15 minutes at a time with the "jackpot" treat coming at the end when she seems less interested, but still does the command. And, I will generally only have 4-5 sessions a day.


Moondog- beautiful photos, wow.
thanks for the advice, tell me...what would i use "mark" for in a real-world scenario? I am curious as to how the command is implemented, and what it means! thanks again!

[moondog]

First thing....if you wait until she's losing interest to decide she's had enough, you've waited too long. End and jackpot when she's still really into it - that will leave her with a wonderful desire for more and when you start again, she'll be right there with you.....ready for more! Keep training sessions short. When she gets it, move on to something else, because...well...she gets it!

Targeting an object or a place begins the teaching to work at a distance from you without losing their attention to you and your direction. In competition obedience, this is used as a foundation for the go out in the directed jumping exercise, where you send your dog to the opposite end of the ring to turn, sit, and wait for you to tell them which jump to take. It's the foundation for the directed retrieve, where you tell your dog which of 3 gloves to go get and bring back. For agility, it helps the dog understand where they are to go next. I haven't done any herding yet, but I imagine it's very useful in the foundation for that, too.

I can think of some cool "real world" uses for it. 1) You're painting the dining room and would prefer she not play in the paint. Send her to "place" where she can watch without becoming a spotted Rott. 2) She left her best toy in the back of the yard and the sprinklers are about to go on. Mark it, and then send her out for it. Woo Hoo! 3) You're watching a movie and in the middle of the best part, you spill your drink. She'd love to go get the paper towels for you. 4) You're on the beach and you see a great spot down the beach you'd like to get a pic of your dog. You're lazy and/or short on time and don't want to walk all the way down there, place your dog, and then have to walk all the way back to take the photo. So you send her out, tell her when to stop, use a hand signal let her know whether you want a sit, a stand, or a down.....and you take your pic! The possibilities are staggering!

There is nothing more fun than a dog that wants to work. Keep it all a game and understand it doesn't have to be perfect to be the best job ever (and it's usually more fun without the perfection part, LOL) and you will have fun beyond belief with your dog....and just as importantly, your dog will have fun with you.