Sadie...is very afraid

[vugrinac]

My family and I got Sadie about a month ago. Now she is about 4 months old. We've always had dogs in our life, but none have been like Sadie...

We had about a 2 hr. car ride home from the breeders. Even though we would stop numerous times, she threw up and peed (on my lap btw.). We all just thought it was car sickness, as puppies are known to have. But, if she even hears the jingling of keys are sees the car, its honestly as if a faucet has been turned on in her mouth. The vet says she has never seen anything like this, that its not car sickness, but anxiety. She will throw up, urinate, slobber, and everything else when in the car.

With all of our other dogs, they loved their kennels, and wouldn't mind "kenneling up." With Sadie its as if the kennel is a dungeon! In there she will also urinate, slobber, etc.. and this is when she is only in there for 10 minutes.
We have tried the tactics of having the car being a fun experience with cheese, hotdogs, all her favorite treats, but nothing is working.

The phrase "scared of its own shadow" is actually completely true with Sadie. If she sees her own shadow, hears the wind, the curtains move, someone bounces a ball, sees a lawn mower... anything... she is so frigtened that she starts to visibly shake and slobber. She won't eat when she is this afraid.

Yesterday, 2 very sweet neighborhood little girls came over and asked if they could pet Sadie. They gently petted her and Sadie pulled on her leash trying to flee and then wet herself. Its just not normal dog behavior.

We don't try to "console" her. We have trainers trying to help us, but once we get to the trainers, the car ride has Sadie in just about a catatonic state...

My family is truly saddened. We wanted a rotti for many reasons, they are beautiful animals that are strong and family oriented. Sadie is a nice girl, who we really do want to be a part of our family, but its really really difficult right now.
Any suggestions?

[brunie's mom]

This is NOT normal behavior for a well bred, mentally balanced puppy.
Where did you get this puppy from? Was this a COE of breeder or a BYB?
Have you been in touch with your breeder about this behavior? What did they have to say.

I would get someone either a trainer or a behaviorist to see your puppy at home and to see what they think and some suggestions.

Have you been socializing this puppy? Is she in Puppy classes?

Gina

[vugrinac]

We got Sadie from a breeder, both parents were on site. All of her brothers and sister were there, and her parents were nice dogs.
We contacted the breeder yesterday, and she said that Sadie's 'grandma" got carsick often, but it cleared up eventually, something to do with her ear.. And she said that Sadie's mom is a calm and submissive dog, but not like this.
Tomorrow, we are getting together with a trainer again and she starts puppy classes the first week of June, we tried to get her in earlier, but couldn't. We're definitely trying to continue to socialize Sadie, and we're hoping and praying for the best.

[frontierrots]

That reminds me of my first Rottweiler. She was not so bad about people but was that bad about cars, even parked ones

My guess is that your breeder did not get the pups started in crate training and never took them in the car. Without knowing facts I have to say it APPEARS like the breeder was not a good one... No pup should be that afraid unless they were kept out in a kennel or in a basement their whole lives til you got her. (My first Rott was a kennel pup)

[vugrinac]

did your dog ever stop with her problem with cars? how did you help her?

[aldelgreco]

just so i understand, she is still acting like that after a month?

[Nishasmom]

Can you hire a trainer to come to your house? This way Sadie won't be "catatonic" when she meets the trainer.

I am so sorry you are going thru this; you have a lot of hard work in your future. Find an excellent trainer who you love; he/she can be your partner in fixing Sadie.

I am not a trainer...but I would start slow.
*1st goal...get comfortable with the car. With the car off (no keys in sight) sit by the car and play. Stay there until she is okay with being in sight of the car (you may have to start far away).
*2nd goal...after she is 100% fine with being next to the car, put her inside (car is still off). Just throw treats at her; get her rope toy out...anything to get her out of stress mode and into play mode. It should be easier b/c of step one.
*3rd goal....turn the car on while Sadie is inside...don't move the car, or sit in the drivers seat; just play as usual.
*4th goal...back out of the driveway, stop, then reward

Anyways, I am sure you get the picture by now. Each step should be at least a day apart...but it could take as long as a week to move on. Keep the 'trips' ridiculously short, and slowly build up. Also, it may help if you put her in a different spot than where she usually rides (if she rides in the back seat, start in the front) this way she has no emotional 'ties' with that spot.

[frontierrots]

Originally Posted by vugrinac

did your dog ever stop with her problem with cars? how did you help her?

When she was about 2 years old she stopped getting car sick. We just kept taking her to fun places- hikes, and the like. It took a lot of work to get her to not be afraid to walk past a car I think maybe 6 months of steady work.

Re the carsick we did not feed her for at LEAST 3 hours before a ride and that helped some

[Zumie05]

To me it sounds like severe anxiety due to lack of socialization during the most critical time period for a developing puppy (age 7 weeks until 16 weeks). If during that time the pup is not introduced to every day things they will encounter in life, such as cars, strangers, the kennel, other dogs, sounds inside a normal household, sounds at the park and/or outside, etc, they don't know what to do with themselves when they do hear or see these things for the first time.

Now that you have the pup you are starting her socialization from ground zero, and she is so frightened that she just doesn't know what to do with herself. To her, everything is out there to kill her.

This is a case that is going to take a very long time to work on, but if you are willing to put forth the effort and be patient about it you can help her out. She may never have the nerve that a normal dog should have, but I bet you can help her learn to relax a little bit more. Just continue to show her things and expose her to things, ignoring the anxiety. Maybe talk to your vet about anti anxiety medications that you can start her on and slowly wean her off as she learns to manage her emotions on her own.


If this isn't the case and the breeder did do proper socialization, there is something wrong with the dog's temperament and in a case like this the dog can (not always, but there is a chance) become a fear biter.

You can also always try to see if the breeder will take this pup back and then look elsewhere for a pup with a stronger nerve.

Best of luck to you guys which ever way you decide to go.

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by vugrinac

did your dog ever stop with her problem with cars? how did you help her?

There is WAY more problems here then just being car sick. Many puppies get car sick...some grow out of it, some get better making adjustments of not feeding,etc.
What worries me is that your pup seems to be afraid of EVERYTHING!! You said she is afraid of noises, things, shadows...people,etc. For a pup to get into such a state that she is frothing and peeing and shaking for everyday things is not normal.

Get a trainer over to your house and get them to watch her behavior.

I have a funny feeling that your pup came from a BYB. Did this breeder have any titles on the sire or dam? Does she show her dogs? What were the hip, elbow, eye and heart scores on the OFA website???

I've yet to meet a normal puppy that did not want to meet kids.

Gina

[vugrinac]

i am so very pleased to announce that sadie is doing much better! She even went on a car ride for over an hour and all she did was slobber! We have a very supportive trainer who has high hopes for her and everything is really getting better! We are very happy! She's a very sweet girl, who has some quirks, but we're working on those!! :)

[Nishasmom]

I am glad to hear about Sadie ! Keep up the good work!

[KarenSasha]

Hi, Just a little info on the timid puppy. My girl RIP was so scared when she was little, she wedged herself between the wall and my waterbed frame and "got stuck" when the door bell rang. She also ran into a tree head first and fell off her feet, almost knocked herself out when she heard a car horn. She hid behind me when other dogs/people came around. Your baby should grow out of it. Some Rotts are just very timid. some have not been socialized and miss their mom, and some have been abused. I think my dog may had her tail docked by someone other than a vet?? that is a different topic altogether. Just reassure her she is safe with you.

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by vugrinac

i am so very pleased to announce that sadie is doing much better! She even went on a car ride for over an hour and all she did was slobber! We have a very supportive trainer who has high hopes for her and everything is really getting better! We are very happy! She's a very sweet girl, who has some quirks, but we're working on those!! :)

Glad to hear that you got a trainer and that Sadie is doing much better!
What advice did the trainer give you that helped with her so much? I'm sure we have other members with the same problems....and maybe you have some things to share?

Gina

[Janus'sMom]

Originally Posted by KarenSasha

Just reassure her she is safe with you.

I would not be coddling her or telling her everything's going to be ok if she's showing signs of fear. That's just re-inforcing her to be scared. When she's chilling out, and nothing is wrong, that's when I would tell her what a good girl she is.

Whatever your trainer said and/or did, congrats on the recovery. I'm glad to hear she is improoving. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted