Non-Physical Alpha Establishment

[mamamia1]

I have a 12 week old female who is just coming into her "Senior Classification Stage" and is trying to figure out who's boss. She is doing quite well in many areas of training except the most important "NO BITING".

We got her at 8 1/2 weeks and have been working on this from day one along with putting our hands in her food, touching her feet etc. Last night was our first attempt with a special treat. We gave her a bone, petted her all over, touched her around the mouth. No problems. My husband, who has established himself as the "Alpha", tried to take the bone back. She growled a little, but her corrected her verbally and she immediately released. I did the same with no problem. We continued with this for a few minutes, holding the bone while she chewed, petting etc. All went well. Hind sight tells me that would have been a good point to stop the exercise.

I reached in one more time and got a full out growl, and she braced herself. I went in to correct and was bitten in the process. It all happened very quickly and ended with her submitting and the bone going in the garbage.

It is quite obvious to me that she does not see me as her alpha. I am regularly correcting her for mouthing. And she has started to ignore me when I tell her to release her toys. I am looking for other non-physical ways to establish "ALPHA".

I have a 5 year old daughter and in no uncertain terms will I allow this behavior.

P.S.: She starts classes tonight.

[brunie's mom]

What is this "senior classification stage"????
What you are doing is teaching your puppy that what you give her you will be taking away...a sure fired way of her being aggressive around food.

Please do some reading here...do a search on "puppy food aggression"...read all of the "stickies" in the Puppy Development forum.

Instead of this "alpha" business....try to work as a team...you are the leader...and the puppy is the student.

Play the trade game....she has something good...you show her something even better (bit of chicken or cheese) and say "drop it" or "out" or whatever you want to use...and trade. Then give her the prize back. Keep doing this for weeks..and she will soon drop the item just from the command.

Have you got her enrolled in Puppy Kindergarten classes yet? It sounds like you are making some mistakes, and you really need to get in touch with a trainer.
There is also so much good information here....read and learn.

Gina

[Zumie05]

A lot of people on here don't think that it is a good idea to pet (aka bother) a dog while she is eating or chewing. Would you like to be pet and poked at while you were eating?

Growling over a resource is due to the dog being FEARFUL that the item will be taken away. That is why it is best to play the trade game, as brunie's mom mentioned, because it teaches the dog to instead look forward to you coming by because you are going to offer something extra tasty, and then give the item back on top of that! Doing this game erases a dog's fear because 1) they never get the item permanently taken away and 2) they get extra goodies.

I hope this makes sense!

[mamamia1]

As I have already mentioned, classes start tonight. I also realize I'm not doing everything right or I wouldn't have posted.

The trade idea sounds good. We'll give it a try.

If we never touch her when she's eating or chewing, what happens if someone ever touches her when she's eating? I want to make her tolerant of everything that may happen to her. Touching feet, tail, toys, food dish, whatever it may be.

[mamamia1]

Sorry, my post should read "Seniority Classification Stage" and I got it from the stick on critical stages of development. :)

Maybe "Alpha" is the wrong word to be using. It seems like there's a lot of debate around the whole alpha/dominance thing. I really just want tips on establishing a sound leadership role. ie. make them sit for food, keeping them off furniture etc.

[Zumie05]

When Gary eats I just throw treats into his bowl sometimes. Yeah I have pet him to make sure he is okay with it, but I do not stroke him and sit there bothering him for a long time. Besides, when a dog eats it only lasts a few minutes so chances are good that no one will NEED to pet your dog while she is eating

For chewing, I usually give my dog a chew toy when I need a break from petting him and giving him attention lol. I still make sure he is okay with me touching his bone and taking it away. I give him a treat, good boy, and then give him the bone back. No need to pet really though.

[Zumie05]

All you have to do to establish leadership in your house is to make sure that your dog works for everything. She must obey a command before doing anything she likes, and you must also tell her when it is okay to do the things she likes.

Before eating, make her sit. Then tell her okay when she can eat. Before petting, make her sit, then good girl and pet her. Little things like that reinforce your position, and it is called "NILIF" or Nothing In Life Is Free.

[alice's mommy]

What I did with Arthur was to hand feed him for months. Not a morsel went into his mouth that he didn't work for, whether it was a sit (then food), down (food), stand (food), etc.. He had food aggression when we first got him at 9 weeks, but after months of this is fine now. Although, you have to be careful with high-value items and if it comes back, back to the hand feeding. :)

[harleychik66]

I would recommend you crate her when giving her a high value item or even feeding her. If this is the only area that there is a problem for the time being crating is an easy solution. She feels safe while she gets treats, supper ect. and you don't have to worry that she will bite/growl when you get to close.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Zumie05

All you have to do to establish leadership in your house is to make sure that your dog works for everything. She must obey a command before doing anything she likes, and you must also tell her when it is okay to do the things she likes.

Sorry, but I really disagree with this. What a miserable existence this would be. My dog likes to do lots of things that have nothing to do with any sort of misbehavior at all.

The way to establish leadership is to participate in training activities with your dog and follow through when you ask your dog to do something, not to micromanage every waking moment.

[lengel]

I believe that this should be a regular case by case training thing, not something that lasts for several minutes at a time. It's more a question of ongoing manners training as opposed to reinforcing a sit or down which is less of a natural behavior and needs to be reinforced by repetition. You're also dealing with resource training which is a different thing altogether.

Your trainer will give you good ideas. I wouldn't worry. It may be that you are trying too hard to desensitize her completely too early.

[Zumie05]

Alright alright, of course you're not going to make your dog do a behavior for you for EVERY tiny little thing, but for big things like going for walks, getting attention, eating food...they should work for it. They should earn those things that they enjoy and learn that everything good in life comes from you.

[FilosFolks]

Also, I would add, using the dog's name is important here.

If I were you, when you are going to take something/trade and treat/return, make sure you alert your dog.

For example, happy voice, "Lexi! What IS that?? Can I see??" and proceed with your trade/treat. Lots of praise when she lets me take it, and then I'll hold the precious item for just a couple seconds after the trade and say "OKAY!" and return it.

I've found that this works better than just walking up and saying "give" with high value items. This method will also help with nasty items picked up along a walk as it teaches them that you aren't going to sneak up and steal it, AND they get cookies for "giving", everytime.

They'll "give" willingly after awhile. Good luck!

Ailee

[mamamia1]

Originally Posted by lengel

It may be that you are trying too hard to desensitize her completely too early.

Thank you so much for all your input. I've been thinking about the situation a lot since it happened and I really think that we should have ended the training much sooner. Sometimes I need to remind myself of her age. I think that along with the trading up thing, would have left the whole session on a much happier note.

After our first training class last night, I'm feeling much more confident that I am on the right track with "KALI"[aside from the obvious and most recent bad choice in training]. She did very well despite the distractions of all the new dogs and surroundings.

I agree that training to "give" a high value resource is a whole different ball game from a good sit. It's going to take time for her to trust that she is not losing it forever.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Zumie05

Alright alright, of course you're not going to make your dog do a behavior for you for EVERY tiny little thing, but for big things like going for walks, getting attention, eating food...they should work for it. They should earn those things that they enjoy and learn that everything good in life comes from you.

One of the best things you can do for a dog. is. for a LOT of things, let and enjoy the dog being a dog. Train, yes....but jeez. Make the dog an enjoyable part of the family, but a dog shouldn't have to WORK for so many things.