Socialisation 'vs' Parvo

[mongreltodd]

I was extrememly happy to stumble across this forum. In exactly 7 days the cutest little guy is arriving on our doorstep (hand delivered by the breeder).

I have been doing heaps of reading and the one thing I just can't seem to come to a conclusion on is socialisation 'vs' the risk of parvo.

The breeder has been telling me socialisation, socialisation....socialisation.
My vet is telling me to keep the little guy within our yard until 12 weeks of age at least and away from any other dogs.

I can't help thinking that keeping him at home is a) not fair on him and b) going to effect his early development.

From the comments I have red on here so far I am sure the wealth of knowledge here can help steer me in the right direction.

[warriec]

You can start socialising with other people after 12 weeks. once the primary shots are given you can start socialising to known people and dogs

[moondog]

It's not as black and white as saying either you 1) socialize, OR; 2) protect your puppy from parvo. Using some common sense, you can socialize while minimizing the RISK of exposure quite dramatically.

The first thing to find out is how prevalent parvo is in your area, and if there are any current outbreaks. Calling around to your local vet's offices can answer this - and I would call a few, not just one. You can take that info and use it to decide how best to socialize your puppy.

If there are no outbreaks, you can take short walks and stay in the street instead of on the sidewalk where other dogs walk. Don't have your puppy sniffing around where other dogs have pee'd/poo'd, like on parkways or street corners. If you have neighbors with puppy friendly, vaccinated, and healthy dogs you can invite them to your house or go to theirs for some doggie socialization.

You can take your puppy with you to the bank, to the post office, to the hardware store, to your local merchandiser.....and let him/her meet lots and LOTS of new people for pets and cookies (that YOU provide so the puppy doesn't get an upset tummy). You can go to a children's playground and parks where other dogs don't go - hey, if dog's aren't allowed the worst thing that can happen is someone will ask you to leave and by then, you've already done your puppy socialization at that location.

Avoid dog parks, pet stores, and dogs you don't know.

Both of my Rottweilers went on walks in the street, to the beach, to the office, to Target, to children's soccer games, to the hardware store, to the mall, to the boat store, to friend's houses, to the Christmas tree lot, to the playground, etc., etc., etc., all starting at 7-1/2 to 8 weeks old. Chili started puppy class at 11 weeks and I would have had her in one earlier, but for availability.

It's critical to socialize early and socialize often with a puppy. Every single day should bring a new adventure.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by warriec

You can start socialising with other people after 12 weeks. once the primary shots are given you can start socialising to known people and dogs

If you read the stickies in Puppy Development, you will see that the window for true socialization (meaning imprinting) closes at 12 weeks. A puppy needs to be out meeting people MUCH earlier than that and as I illustrated above, there are MANY ways to accomplish it with minimal risk of exposure to parvo.

[Mick Trainer]

Moondogs has basically answered it for you I will simply back this up. By being some what smart you can do bot by as Moondog said avoiding dogs parks, areas with long grass and bushy areas, avoid contact with dogs you do not know the health history of and take the pup to areas with sealed serfacecs that have been exposed to ultraviolet light then the risk of Parvo is very small and the benefits to the pup through early socialisation is for me large and something I like your breeder strongly recommend.

Whilst there is always a risk doing what has been stated above and the risk is small and the benefits to early development through correct socialisation is large and a risk me and my customers take every day.

Hope that this helps,

Mick.

[alice's mommy]

Hi there....

I wondered the same thing and in the end, decided that socialization was far more important! :) I can't tell you how many dogs Arthur and I encounter who are absolutely terrified of other dogs! My Arthur loves to meet people, puppies, dogs - anything and everything! I'd honestly say that about 70% of other dogs we meet on our walks are having to be restrained by their owners for trying to "get at" Arthur. Honestly, they are truly vicious encountering other dogs.

I'm not sure about your area, but here in my town we have "puppy socialization" classes for puppies who are under 12 weeks of age. This way you know that they're all in the same "shots" time table and they still get to interact, play and meet each other. Plus, your pooch will get to meet all sorts of people who come with those puppies. Hopefully your city has this!

Good luck!

[mongreltodd]

thanks for all the input everyone. Appreciate the advice.

I would much rather ask the question than make a mistake :-) Need to make sure I do right by him

[Necie]

The others here have given you great advice. My vet (of 13 yrs) has also told me not to socialize with UNKNOWN dogs til puppy shots are complete, even not to let pup sniff around outside his office where other dogs have pottied and in the future will let me know if a dog/pup has been in with parvo so that I'm extra careful outside then too.

I would just like to add that family and friends have been an invalueable resource of pets for socialization. With family, I know their pets are non-aggressive and vaccinated. With friends, I ask. We have 2 friends houses where Gracie is not allowed. One has a dog that is dog aggressive and the other has a cat that is scared to death of dogs and I will not torture their cat to socialize my pup (and they wouldn't let me if I would). So, just make sure and ask before showing up with the new pup-sometimes friends won't say much, sometime they will-no sense in hurting a relationship.

Remember that everything is 'new and strange' to a pup under 12 wks even if they aren't to you. After 12 wks I started taking Gracie to the pet store to meet other 'new and strange' dogs (to both of us), that keeps ME on my toes, too. Last time we met a year old mastiff-he was BIG with no manners, and the LARGEST doberman (also a year old) that I've ever seen-he was NOT nice. Gracie sat to meet and he snapped and we both jumped-BACKWARDS! The gals at the store love Gracie and tell her when she grows up she's gonna be a Wal-Mart greeter. :)

[mongreltodd]

thanks for that. As I say, i just want to make sure I give this little guy the best possible start.

The sire is a beautiful dog with a great temperment and the dam is such a big softy. So I am looking forward to watching him grow :-)

[cerulean]

Is a sandy, saltwater beach a safe place to take our pup (btwn 8-12 wks) ??
Even though other dogs do go there very often, we could go at low tide, stay in the sand, and avoid the grassy areas. Or is this too risky ??

Question # 2: do coyotes carry parvo ?? They are common in our rural area.
Thanks to all :)

[spidey]

Moondog is exactly right. I will also point out what is often said about this topic, which is that far more dogs die from lack of socialization (i.e. the lifelong behaviour problems it causes) than from disease. Be sensible, but do not wait until 12 weeks to socialize. I would rather take the risk of disease than spend a decade with an undersocialized dog.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by cerulean

Is a sandy, saltwater beach a safe place to take our pup (btwn 8-12 wks) ??
Even though other dogs do go there very often, we could go at low tide, stay in the sand, and avoid the grassy areas. Or is this too risky ??

Question # 2: do coyotes carry parvo ?? They are common in our rural area.
Thanks to all :)

At 8 weeks, Chili got off an airplane with her breeder and straight to the beach we went! We did go to a "no dogs allowed" beach, and boy did Chili have a blast leaping through the sand - until the lifeguard came and informed us no dogs (with a big smile and a pat for Chili), LOL. She didn't go in the water that first time, but did get her paws wet. The same thing applies - don't go where other dogs frequent, don't go to a beach with known pollution (sewer drainage, etc). The beach is FUN for puppies!

Yes, coyotes can carry any disease a dog can carry. In our area, there was an outbreak of distemper in the coyote population. Contact your local wildlife office and they should know if the coyotes are succumbing or afflicted by a particular disease.

[ZoesMomma]

Originally Posted by mongreltodd

I was extrememly happy to stumble across this forum. In exactly 7 days the cutest little guy is arriving on our doorstep (hand delivered by the breeder).

I have been doing heaps of reading and the one thing I just can't seem to come to a conclusion on is socialisation 'vs' the risk of parvo.

The breeder has been telling me socialisation, socialisation....socialisation.
My vet is telling me to keep the little guy within our yard until 12 weeks of age at least and away from any other dogs.

I can't help thinking that keeping him at home is a) not fair on him and b) going to effect his early development.

From the comments I have red on here so far I am sure the wealth of knowledge here can help steer me in the right direction.

Zoe started going places with me as soon as she was settled in a bit, maybe a couple of days after she arrived. She started two dofferent PK classes when she was a day shy of 10 weeks old with her vet's blessing and has been going to at least one type of class each week since then. She is a social butterfly and meets and greets every puppy and owner as good friends. A fellow showed up with a timid 4 month old Aussie last evening at Agility, and she charmed that puppy into a good game of chase and eat your head within 10 minutes. It was such fun to watch her working at putting him at ease. Everyone stopped what they were working on to help socialize the little guy and by the end of the session he was much more comfortable with all of us.

[alessadry]

Parvo is pretty bad where I live and my vet as well told to keep my pups in isolation especially since they are Rotties and more prone to the disease. He told me that Rotties have less chance of survival as well. I am terrified of Parvo, my pups are 10 weeks and I never let my pups touch the floor at the vet and they stay in the crate. I got upset though when the vet tech put one of my pups on the floor before putting him in the cage. Therefore, I as well have the concern of parvo vs socialization. I take them with my hubby on car rides in the week end. I do not have a car therefore, I can only take them out when he is off work which is late evening when all stores are closed. I live in the country and just moved and do not know anyone.It is tough. All they have socialized so far is at the vet's office, one day at Petsmart, with my two kitties and to car rides to get gasoline. I am concerned this is truely not enough.

[Shelby427]

Originally Posted by alessadry

Parvo is pretty bad where I live and my vet as well told to keep my pups in isolation especially since they are Rotties and more prone to the disease. He told me that Rotties have less chance of survival as well. I am terrified of Parvo, my pups are 10 weeks and I never let my pups touch the floor at the vet and they stay in the crate. I got upset though when the vet tech put one of my pups on the floor before putting him in the cage. Therefore, I as well have the concern of parvo vs socialization. I take them with my hubby on car rides in the week end. I do not have a car therefore, I can only take them out when he is off work which is late evening when all stores are closed. I live in the country and just moved and do not know anyone.It is tough. All they have socialized so far is at the vet's office, one day at Petsmart, with my two kitties and to car rides to get gasoline. I am concerned this is truely not enough.

it's not enough. You need to have your puppy meet other people, children, other safe, vaccinated animals. What you're describing here is no where near enough. When we got Shelby, she went with us EVERYWHERE, to the post office, to the store, to the petstore, she met many, many children and other people. Just driving in a car to get gas is not socializing, since it's just you guys in the car with her, she needs to get out and meet people. I'd rather risk the parvo than dealing with an undersocialized rottie who later on will have issues with people and animals. Try to be as safe as you can, but you have to socialize.