Tug Of War or not?

[Jaan]

My vet doesn't want me playing tug of war with my puppy---says it make them aggressive. I have played this game with every pup I've ever had and have yet to see any harm in it. It is great excercise and I always make sure to end the game on my terms, i.e I win. I have read posts here from extremely experienced trainers that are all for it but are there any of you out there that have differing opinions? (I have a great vet but that doesn't make him a dog training guru.)

[spidey]

Tug of war is a cooperative game, generally, not a competitive one (ever noticed how most dogs will immediately bring the tug back to you if they "win", to start the game again?). It's also a great reward for some dogs, and a way to work on your "out" command. I have no problem with tug, as long as you don't allow it to turn into a competition and as long as you make sure that you "win" when you want to (i.e. by telling the dog to let go). The idea that it "makes them aggressive" isn't really based on anything other than conjecture, and indeed, studies of this behaviour among wild and domestic dogs indicates that it's much more a cooperative behaviour than a competitive one.

[brunie's mom]

I agree with spidey...tug is a great game...and she be taught as a game.
Good teaching tool, and a good way to teach a pup control. If the pup accidentaly bites your hand when playing tug (and they do)...sqeal...and stop the game.
I use the tug toy as a reward after we are finished training.

The only time I don't think tug is a good idea is with children...kids are to weak, and not knowledable enough to know how to play.

Wish vets would stick with medicine and leave behaviour and training to the people that know. I've heard alot of misinformation from vets.

Gina

[Ayoka]

Had to chime in to say that we use Tug as a reward and as soon as I lket go of the tug toy (we have special toys we only use for tug at Flyball) Bear Drops iot and looks at me as if to say " Well, aren't you going to pick it up and PLAY!?!?!?

We have been using the tug in the flyball context to try and build a focal point for his love of chase, so that he doesn't focus on other dogs. We also play a good game of tug after our Obedience training sessions as I find it's a good way to reward him AND it seems to relax him...the obedience training is hard mind work for both of us and I like to end on a fun note.

We have "rules"...a nip on fingers gets a "sorry" and the toy gets away and when I say "that's enough" he knows the game is over.

I would have to agree with Gina that it's not a good idea to let kids play this game and as a rule I wouldn't let just any adult play the game either but that's because I want Bear to think of ME as the centre of his universe.

[DCs Dad]

Tug-of-war is one of those dog games that many dog trainers will caution you against playing. The reasoning is that it pits you against your dog and, at some point, you invariably allow the dog to win, giving him the idea he can best you in a battle of strength. For some dogs, this could create delusions of grandeur.

[Ayoka]

Originally Posted by DCs Dad

Tug-of-war is one of those dog games that many dog trainers will caution you against playing. The reasoning is that it pits you against your dog and, at some point, you invariably allow the dog to win, giving him the idea he can best you in a battle of strength. For some dogs, this could create delusions of grandeur.

Just to take this a bit further...

I wonder if in these cases it would be 100% the tug play that created the dominant behaviour or a culmination of a bunch of tiny things the dog would get away with that would create the "delusion"?

If there's a good, structured relationship in place and the dog knows it's "place", I think a game (lets say TUG) in exchange for a desired behaviour reinforce the the dog's "place"?

[miccmill]

We used Tug-Of-War to help Hannah develop some confidence. She was young, nervous/fearful and rarely looked happy or wagged her tail.

She really enjoys this game as well as other "games" like obedience training and I didn't see anything but positive changes in her self confidence.

[Shelby427]

Shelby too loves to play tug o war. It's fun for both of us. She's really strong, so she usually wins, but I end the game with a "drop" command when I'm tired!

[Jaan]

Thank you for sharing your knowlege. I suppose I should have said that I am the one that ends the game, not that "I win". I agree that it helps hone the drop it command, something that Grizelda is getting very good at. I still play tug with the 9 year old Rottie and, at 99 lb, she can get it away from me every time but always brings it back to me for more. When I say enough, that's the end of the game. She loves it and certainly is not aggressive.

I respect my vet very much in his area of expertise but after extensive reading of this board, I am realizing that sometimes vets venture to places where they shouldn't go. Thanks again.

[Sammy W]

Tug games are also more for working prospects. It is a very good training tool in early puppy imprinting.It can be used to develope comfidence and also to teach the counter bite for full hard mouth grips.

[scalewoodman]

It's like children: You receive all kinds of conflicting advice. It can either make you crazy or just make a decision that seems best for your unique situation.

If it doesn't work; then just stop it. After reading some of this advice, I'm thinking of trying it; our Lola could use some self confidence to increase her defensive drives and then make her easier to train.

Like the Yo-Yo leash: I've had all kinds of conflicting advice and decided it's best to use for us when taking a walk-- dog gets more exercise and the same intellectual benefits and bonding in my opinion. The big dog leash has a strap not cord so it's less of a safety hazard... go with your gut and know you can change your mind!

[peachesandchubby]

IMO which is by farrrrrrrrrrrrrr not expert advise but I do like what Scalewoodman said about you have to be the one that determines from all the advise to use a method that works for your individaul furkid

I play fetch and get them to do their fun commands and tricks, while hubby likes to "ruff house" and play tug with them. I am the one who does all the feeding (except hubby and his sneek bites to them under the table ), and I am the one who takes them to their classes. I also will be the handler when we start agility with Peaches (when she is old enuff) . Its me again with the baths and kissing of boo boos so to speak.

I think they consider Hubby as a stronger Buddy type and the tug of war thing is kinda ruff on me as they out weigh me togather by about 65 lbs or so

good luck
Teresa

[spidey]

Originally Posted by DCs Dad

Tug-of-war is one of those dog games that many dog trainers will caution you against playing. The reasoning is that it pits you against your dog and, at some point, you invariably allow the dog to win, giving him the idea he can best you in a battle of strength. For some dogs, this could create delusions of grandeur.

Except for the fact that seems to always be forgotten by those who think tug is the root cause of "delusions of grandeur": you can't play tug alone! The point of the game is to play the game, not to win, with the vast majority of dogs.

Dogs don't ever develop inappropriate ideas about their place in the world from one thing, it's ALWAYS a pattern of interaction and behaviour set by the dog's owners. If you already have a problem dog, then certainly don't do anything which will further reinforce the dog's undesirable idea about where he fits, but recognize that YOU are the one who taught the dog the wrong things about appropriate interaction. VERY few dogs are truly dominant, they just want someone to be the leader, and if you don't step up and act like a leader (which is NOT being a bully, but a leader), then the dog is placed in a position where he has to assume that role. Dogs don't get this idea from tug or being allowed on the furniture or any other single thing - they get it from a long-term pattern of inappropriate interaction. There is nothing wrong with tug, there is DEFINITELY something wrong with people who don't establish fair, appropriate rules of interaction with their dogs and stay consistent with them.

[lovemypuppies]

We love to play tug! We send the dogs hunting for the tug and then we play in a happy frame of mind. Not like gladiators. We also taught the dogs to play tug with each other. They get along well so this has never turned nasty. It helps to have a longish double ended tug so that the dogs don't accidentally touch each other. But i must say they are amazingly accurate with their teeth. When Ali had ACL surgery, gentle tug games were a good way to play with her while she was lying down. I also play tug while we are all watching TV, the dogs lie beside us and we play gentle tug games. I think because the dogs can only pull hard if YOU pull hard you can control the level of the game. Gina made a great point when she said no kids playing tug. I would suggest that you have a specific tug toy--the old "yank the dish towel" game just encourages destructive tearing!

[lilabet]

Spidey just said it all. My dogs sometimes sleep on my bed, are allowed on the couch, play tug with me, etc. and we have no problems, but I try my best to be a fair,calmly assertive, consistant leader to my dogs.