New pup, older dogs, big problems.

[Jaan]

Ok, I am quite willing to admit that I must have been delusional to think this would work easily. I suppose I was lulled into complacency by my previous dogs/experiences. However, now my impulsivity has landed me in a pickle and I really need expert advice.

Here is the background: I have a 9 year old Rottie bitch and an 11 year old Border Collie/Aussie mix bitch (both spayed) and they are good tempered and easy going to a fault. When I lost my male Rottie last month, my second one to cancer at 9 1/2, I figured it was time to introduce a new pup so as to have one in the pipe line, so to speak. I am so afraid that I will lose the old Rottie in the near future and I couldn't imagine the house without a Rottie in it. Good intentions (the road to hell is paved with 'em) but it's not working out as anticipated.

As long as I can keep the pup away from them there usually isn't a problem---they just hang out and go about their business. However, that means that the pup must constantly be tethered to me, in her crate or I have to put the big girls in my bedroom (which is their sleeping area). As to the latter, I fear that locking up the old dogs is going to create jealousy as they are now seeing a pup take over their accustomed places, even if it's only for an hours play time.

The old Rottie has already taken a few nips at the pup and always when the pup was on her back in a submissive posture. (After 'Kyrie had gotten done licking and smelling the pup, she nipped for no apparent reason, once rather hard. I am figuring that it is jealousy, pure and simple.) Even the Border Collie, the meekest and mildest canine soul ever whelped, has bared her teeth when the pup has gotten to her in one of my rare seconds of inattention. I do not leave them alone ever, not for an instant but once or twice the pup had a little more leash than I thought she had. Interestingly, there are zero problems when it comes to food, even high value food. They all sit and wait their turn and of course they get everything in the proper order---Rottie first, Collie second and pup last. When they are out of doors, allowing the old dogs to put distance between them, all is peaceful.

It is a pity that I did not find this site until after the pup's purchase because, knowing what I know now, I certainly wouldn't have bought a female. To be honest, if the breeder wasn't 2000 miles and two plane rides away, I would have him take her back and get a pup at a later date when the house was empty. The worst part of all is that I know that the old dogs are unhappy and that makes me very sad indeed. They deserved to spend their old age in harmony and contentment. I was SO STUPID to have messed it up for them. (Please don't anyone write and tell me that I'm an idiot--I know that only too well!)

Anyway, after that long winded explanation, the question is: does anyone think that, as the pup gets a bit older, she will lay off the old timers and that calm will once again reign? (That's all it would take---her leaving them alone.) Or am I going to have to keep them separate forever? Even if no one has a soothing answer for me, I hope that this post may serve to enlighten any other neophyte who may be thinking of bringing a new pup into a household already occupied by older dogs. It has worked for me in the past but this time seems to be a disaster waiting to happen. I look forward to the advice of those far more experienced than myself.

[hokisteph5]

I hear you on how invaluable the information is on this site. My mom calls it the "cult" site because I'm always talking about some tidbit I found on here.

It sounds like you have a handle on the situation and have taken steps to ensure the best possible scenario for now. I don't have two same sex dogs in my house so I'll leave those recommendations for the experts.

Two suggestions I did have was to put a baby gate up at your bedroom so that the dogs can sniff and smell each other. Maybe familiarity will lead to more harmony. Also, before you try having the three dogs together in the same room, maybe get the pup really tired out with a play or training session. That way she won't be as likely to make a pest of herself with the older girls.

[groupieindenial]

Jaan, I think you are really in for it now. You've been lucky that your 2 females get along, but they really are not that tolerant of puppies, and the pup is a female! Yikes! As the pup gets older, most likely things will get worse. I really don't understand why the breeder was willing to sell you a female puppy, when you already have 2.

I really would stress to see how you can get this pup back to the breeder, and work something out towards a future purchase. The older the pup gets, the harder to place it in a new home.

[Dieselpup]

Don't beat yourself up over your mistake. There's a solution to this problem, and I'm hoping that someone more knowledgeable than me will respond.

HOWEVER, I have a 9-year-old Rottie male (neutered) and 13 month old unaltered Rottie male, and just towards the end of January purchased a white German Shephard puppy bitch.

The 9-year-old has always been great with the puppies. He helped me raise that 13 month old! THe young 'un, on the other hand, is a bit rough with the puppy. My solution: VERY little play time together and always supervised.

When the pup's having free time in the house, the two Rotties are in a huge custom-made crate on the verandah. When the two Rotties are having free time in the house, puppy goes to her crate. The problem is that everyone will play and the two Rotties will crowd the pup and try to dominate her.

I allow the younger ROttie and the pup to play by putting the Rottie in a down stay and allowing the pup to approach him. Then I'll release the Rottie and let them play for a few minutes 2-3 then everyone's separated.

I take the younger Rottie and the Shepherd pup in the car, and that's helped them get accustomed to each other.

Eventually, I'll try walking the two dogs together on leash (after the shepherd has gotten better at walking on heel, and I've lost my sanity).

Hope this will help,

Debbie

[brunie's mom]

There is such an age difference between the two older dogs and the pup...I don't think you should have too many problems in the future.

I don't think the two older girls would have liked any sex of puppy coming home. Pups are a PITA for older dogs.

When I brought Baxter home our female was almost 6, and she would have liked to kill him I'm sure . We started slowly...kept her crated, or him crated...and let them sniff through a crate or baby gate. I took the pup out alone to play and potty...and fed pup in the crate. I did not expect instant harmony or love. When pup was about 10 weeks old we started walking them on leash together....I took pup and hubby took China...and we walked side by side. Eventually and slowly...as the pup matured and got bigger...she just accepted that the pup was here and he was not going home.

They eventually got to be friends and are very close now.
You really should not allow pup to bother your older dogs...she should stay at the bottom of the pack. Give the two older dogs their own time with you. You may be stretched for time, but as the pup matures...things will be better.

Rottweilers are not a long lived breed, and I would not worry about future years of female to female aggression.

Gina

[Canadianrotti]

I have never had 2 female dogs in the house at once, I am not that brave!

I don't know how much of this situation is due to the age gap, and how much is due to the fact that you have 3 female dogs. All the way around it is far from an ideal situation. IMHO I think that you are going to have to live with that these 3 will NEVER get along, or at least be prepared for that fact. You may have to keep them separated, or you may get away with them being in 2's, it is hard to say.

A tough lesson to learn.

[Sharon Marples]

I'm with Gina, I think at the age that your two oldsters are at, they are more peeved than anything else because the pup bugs them.

As was suggested, put the put in a crate and let them smell her and interact with her in that manner for a few weeks. Keep up your diligence on keeping the pup away from them in close quarters and I think that with more and more walks together, more play time (supervised of course) outside together and once the pup grows up a bit and settles down, the two olders ones should accept her.

There is enough age difference between them that I really think, that with a lot of supervision and patience, that you can work it out. However, you will need to keep on your toes for a long while as this plays out.

Good luck.

[ROB'Z]

I don't have any experience with 2 females but i do with having 2 male rotti's in one house.and as weird as it may sound alot of it is just going to have to work its self out the pups are going to have to work out the social structure and get their own pecking order.i've been rather lucky with mine seeming how they were raised togather since 5 weeks.but with my old Doberman and old rotti we had our fair shares of headaches from them, the Doberman was 9 and the pup was 6 weeks when they first met so naturally the older dog didn't want anything to do with the other it just takes time and being cautious like you're already doing.good luck hopefully they can get along in the future

[Jaan]

Thank you all so very much for responding. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and thoughts on my problem. Please allow me to answer you individually:

Hokisteph: I'm putting your plan of action into effect this evening. Since there isn't any trouble unless the pup gets "in their faces", it shouldn't hurt to allow them to sniff each other through the gate.

groupieindenial: I hear ya! Unfortunately, I am tapped out, moneywise. Between the pup, vet and shipping, I'm now in for well over $2000. I just don't have the bucks to ship her back and then re ship a new pup at a later date. In case you are wondering why on earth I bought a pup from so far away, this is the reason: I wanted a well bred pup from a reputable breeder and there simply are none in our part of the country. Heck, there aren't even any BYB around here (not that I would want one!) because this is farm dog area--Heelers, Border Collies, Aussies, Cattle Dogs, etc. Not a Rottie to be had in this neck of the woods unless you import. As to why the breeder sold me a female when he knew I had two other females, ???????????????? Quite possibly, I came across on the phone and e mail as more experienced a dog person than I really am. I am finding out that, just because I owned three other Rotties, I have an awful lot to learn.

Deiselpup: Thanks, though I suspect that I WILL continue to beat myself up!
I guess what lulled me was the fact that, when we found the BC wandering the highway and brought her home, the male and female Rottie just sniffed her and basically acted like "So, ya stayin' for dinner"? She came in the house and the rest is history---never the slightest problem. In the parallel universe that I inhabit, I suppose I thought it would be the same with the pup--not! I'm going to try your idea of putting the big dogs in the back of the SUV, which is barred, and the pup in the front. They all love to ride and it may help to bond them.

Brunie's mom: There is a huge age difference and that is what I am pinning my hopes on. I will continue to keep the pup away from the oldsters and hope that time will smooth things. I do give the big girls plenty of attention and take them for several runs in the pasture every day, sans puppy. Lots of pets and treats, too. As I have the luxury of being retired, I can definitely find time for everyone's needs and wants. It will just take a bit of juggling and I'm up for it! And as you said, most unfortunately, my sweet 'Kyrie is not likely to be here that much longer. (I'd like for her to live forever but we all know that's not going to be the case.)

[dennisj]

I brought an 8 week old female pup home in Sept. last year. I have an 11 year old female also. At first things were ok, but then as the pup started to find her place and wanted to play all the time, the older one lost patience with her. We supervised most of the time they were together and if the little one really got overzealous, she went in the crate for awhile to calm down. As time went by, things improved. The pup is almost 9 months old now and going into heat for the first time. The older girl is spayed. The two of them have become very good with each other. The pup is submissive to the 11 year old and they are together almost all the time. They have really bonded finally.

[Jaan]

I should have waited to reply as further ideas continue to come in.

Sharon Marples: I read many of your previous posts and I know that you have extensive knowledge of Rotties. I find that the general consensus here, including yours, is that this should work out if I am diligent in my duties.
It isn't that the older two dogs hate the pup---they just don't want to be jumped on. Believe me, that won't happen again. The first two days cured me of thinking that we were living in Nirvana and I will simply make sure that Grizelda is on the other side of the room until she out grows this brat stage.

That being said, I did take notice of those who said that it was a bad idea from the gitgo. Due to my age this is likely the last pup I will ever have and I will do my best to make sure this works without bloodshed.

Thanks so much----this site is my new Bible! All of the best information in one place.