15wk puppy fighting with other dogs

[jazzking1971]

I have a 15wk potential SchH pup that I let pretty much do what he wants because I don't want to quell any of his drive. For the most part things have been good but he's had two fights with my pug over food. The pug always starts the fight and the two times the puppy got into it he bit up the pug pretty good. I'm talking hard and full bites to the neck, ears and rear legs of the pug. We have been feeding the dogs in separate rooms but on two occasions the pug got out and attacked the pup.

The pup is NOT getting hurt. The problem is, twice now, he's drawn blood on the pug in multiple places before I or my wife could stop it. Do I want to correct him for this? So far there have been minimal corrections while he's out.

I should note, this is not during feeding time as the pup gets fed in his crate this is usually during medication time for the older dogs who get pills in meat chunks.

Please advise on correcting or not correcting the pup.

[groupieindenial]

If your not going to show this puppy leadership, he will assume it (like he's showing). You can't expect a pup from SCH lines to meld into your home without rules and strong leadership. Those who raise sch pups as what you described, no rules, no corrections, are usually kennel dogs, and are NOT allowed to play with other dogs, no ifs ands or butts. You have to rethink what your doing here, and why.

I'll let the others blast you as to why Rotties bond better, are happier as house dogs, but there are rules that come with that.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by jazzking1971

The pug always starts the fight and the two times the puppy got into it he bit up the pug pretty good.

Please advise on correcting or not correcting the pup.

No matter what venue you have chosen for your dog, basic manners are appropriate. You are setting up this puppy for failure by exposing him to attacks by another dog. I'm confused as to why your question is whether the puppy should be corrected, and not the pug who is instigating it?

If this only happens during medication in meat events, how hard would it be to crate the puppy for the duration and avoid the problem altogether?

[jazzking1971]

Originally Posted by moondog

I'm confused as to why your question is whether the puppy should be corrected, and not the pug who is instigating it?

I don't want to do anything to break his confidence or his drive. I've read lot's of stuff about not correcting schH pups for this reason. He does have basic manners, sit, down, stand, come etc...

Also the pup never starts the fight, it's always the pug and I stop it by scooping up the pug ASAP but the puppy is quick and quite tenacious. I always correct the pug. As far as the meat events, it's an exercise where I or my wife make them all sit and wait. We were doing well with the pug in the room but then the first fight broke. The 2nd time the pug was in the other room with a baby gate as a divider and he busted that down to get food and then he attacked the pup.

With my other dogs, if a squabble ever broke out I always corrected both of them for fighting. Things have been calm for years and then there have been these fights.

groupieindenial, the pup is not a kennel dog. He is allowed the play at specific times and we set up play dates with others pups near his age as well as two other former litter mates.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by moondog

If this only happens during medication in meat events, how hard would it be to crate the puppy for the duration and avoid the problem altogether?

Well then, what about doing this?

I'm not sure I buy into the "breaking confidence and drive" thing, as long as there isn't abuse.......my confident and drivey dog has been raised with plenty of structure in her life and she's as drivey and confident as ever......?

[Sharon Marples]

Originally Posted by jazzking1971

Also the pup never starts the fight, it's always the pug and I stop it by scooping up the pug ASAP but the puppy is quick and quite tenacious.

Well I don't blame the pup for protecting hmself. BUT, look at his age. In another 4 months he will be another 40 - 50 lbs heavier and it will only take ONE bite to kill the pug.

Why are you setting him up this way? You need to MANAGE your dogs and make sure the pug is NEVER allowed to jump the pup. You are not only putting the life of the pug at risk, you are allowing the pup to think that he is going to have to defend himself against other dogs. This alone is something that is the VERY wrong road to go down.

If you have to keep them separated all the time in order to prevent this from happening, do it. Break this pattern of behavior between the two of them. If need be, throw the pug into a crate the whole time the pup has food in front of him. Do whatever it takes. As it stands, you are allowing both of them to think that what they are doing is ok.

I know of many SchH dogs that were raised in the house with the family, with children and learned the ropes and rules just like all the other dogs in the family. If he has drive, well taught obedience and rules are not going to quelsh that drive.

[zorro13]

Just out of curiosity, what have you been reading?

[jazzking1971]

Originally Posted by moondog

Well then, what about doing this?

I'm not sure I buy into the "breaking confidence and drive" thing, as long as there isn't abuse.......my confident and drivey dog has been raised with plenty of structure in her life and she's as drivey and confident as ever......?

Of course something along those lines will happen begining today. I just wanted to know if the pup should be corrected for fighting. I've had the pup for 7.5wks and there have only been two incidents. We've got five dogs in the house and with the exception of two occasions, they all sit and down in unision for the meat treats. three threat have meds and two are blanks. I have two other Rottie that I try to keep the pup around to learn manners from while he is out of the crate. He's been following along quite well and I work with the pup for a total of 15-25 minutes over the course of several hours. So far, I think he been doing wonderfully with his basic obiedience.

I think the biggest issue it that I read too many different things.

[jazzking1971]

Originally Posted by zorro13

Just out of curiosity, what have you been reading?

Schutzhund Obedience: Training in Drive by Sheila Booth
Beyond basic dog training by Diane Bauman
articles by David Deleissegues
Culture clash by Jane donaldson

[bleh60]

Well for one thing if the fights start over food then you shouldnt be feeding them together. Regardless of who starts the fight, dont make them feel like they need to defend themselves for it.

Listen to what others hear have told you. Your pup needs to be corrected and not "do whatever he wants to do", no matter house pet, SCH or otherwise. If he has drives he has drives, and he will put it in the right place when his SCH training starts; and if anything you will need to be reminding him who's boss, especially when sch training. Like Sharon said, you are setting him up for failure.

[dmoniz]

I too have a pup that I am working in schutzhund. My trainer also said no corrections and no strict obedience till he is a year old. He still got calm a "no" or "ah-ah" when he is miss behaving as he is a house dog and needs to get along with my 4 other dogs. I was also told to not let the other dogs correct him for anything, so it was my responsibility to redirect the pup when the others were getting sick of him, my responsibility to make sure he did not approach the other dogs while they were eating or had something of value.

Now for dog aggression. That is one thing my helper does not tolerate. I mentioned that Cain was becoming dog aggressive. He said put the prong on him and let him know that is not acceptable ever. If he brings a level 5 correct with a level 6. Cain was 8 months old when this attitude came out so I am not suggesting you put a prong on your younger pup at this time, but you have to get the dog aggression under control. Dogs will be DQ'd in USA events for showing dog aggression, so this is important.