Leash vs off leash walking

[funcen2]

Could use some advice on walking leash vs off leash. I live out in the country and have miles and miles of snowmobile/logging trails which Schatzi just loves off leash. (almost 4 mos old now)
We also go on our road (which is a dead end road) and she is on leash. She is pretty good on the leash on the outward trek, showing much improvement from when we first started when I had to carry her some on the outbound, but on the way home, 50% - 75% pulling. Im using the tree/treat method and will revert back to our yard for more training. I have alot of paitence fortunately ! As for off leash trail walking, same thing, mosty by my side on the way out, way back, she is 25' in front of me sometimes, then stops and waits, or 75% of the time she will stay if given the command. Given these scenarios, my basic question is: Am I doing more harm than good with off leash walking at this point seeing as she does not have the heel even remotely mastered. Ive read lots of threads but havent seen the answer I'm looking for.

[Canadianrotti]

I tried letting Ralein off leash when she was younger, but she is too easily distracted, and usually ends up rolling in something stinky!

Even though she is now 3 y/o and has a very reliabe recall (several levels of OB and agility training), I still dont want to rely on her recall if things go bad.

I would say that it is safer for your pup, and will help your training if you keep working on getting her to walk nicely on lead, and get her other training rock solid. Really, what is to gain by having her run about off lead anyways? All it does is increase the risk that she is going to trip over a gopher hole and tear her ACL, or have an encounter with a porcupine (ask Lorrie about that one).

[Patricia Dianne]

I keep Ruckus on the leash in the city, he is now 2 years old, but I have to admit that we have ravines and walking trails in our neighborhood and I let him loose in those areas. You can see other people for quite a distance and we don't have porcupines (I don't even want to think what kind of damage one of those could do) or such creatures in our woods as we are still on the edge of a city (we do have beaver, deer, squirrels, racoons etc.). Both Ruckus and I enjoy our walks "in the country" - he gets the zoomies and can't stop smiling all the time we're exploring in our little piece of 'wilderness'. I really feel like it helps us bond as we are both relaxed and enjoying our surroundings - we do the training (as in heeling, sitting at cross-walks etc.) once we get back to civilization and we only go into the woods on weekends the rest of the time he has to be on his best "leash behaviour".

[rottnkidd]

I can certainly appreciate the area you are in and the ease of walking out leash-less, however, your very young pup is vulnerable to a number of dangers by not being leashed. Aside from gopher holes; coyotes can easily take advantage of this setting, and in a pack situation you would be helpless to defend your pup.
Aside from the safety issues, she is not learning respect for you or the leash by walking without it. You can walk out with her on a 6' leash and practice her walking by you; and then on the return trip put her on a long line for some 'restricted' freedom, or vice-versa.
I live in an area surrounded by fields and woodlands and have exposed my girl to these areas since she was a young pup. She was well over the age of 3 yrs and after we had completed 3 yrs of Obedience schooling, before I attempted off-leashing her.
There is time for off-leash when you have a respectful and well-trained adult dog. By allowing her this much freedom, you are setting a precedent for the future which will be difficult to undo.
Is she currently in a training class?
Best wishes-
kathy

[Gerts]

I had the ability to do the same with my puppy many years ago... I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily, but he was not let off leash until he had graduated in steps, from a 6 ft. leash to a long-line with some specifics in training.

He had to respond to my "stay with me" command, "wait" command, and my "come back" command: all without missing a beat, or giving it a second thought.

I wanted to let him roam free but had concerns about coyetes, the pond full of ducks to chase, and basically just spotting something and high-tailing outa there!! He has always shown such great "drive" that I was concerned if a rabbit popped up and ran, so would he! So the long-line gave him some freedom and a chance to sniff and roam a bit but the control such a young puppy still needed.

After I was comfortable with his command response, I would take my long-line with me and let him off for a bit, testing the commands, and occassionally hooking him back up randomly so he realized the amount of control I had. If I felt he were pushing his boundaries too much, line attachment and rules were easy enough to put into place with the long-line always with me.

As fun as it was to watch my puppy "roam free", I always kept in mind the harm that could easily come to him. I can't even imagine having to return home with an injured or dead puppy due to my wrong decisions. This scared me enough to make me take baby steps into the amount of freedom he acquired. And eventually, (due to their intelligence), he learned very quickly the rules, and won himself the rewards.

Maybe some new ideas for you in how to have your puppy "graduate" to her freedom!

[Mick Trainer]

If you seek to in the end have your dog walking with you off leash but still under effective control (performing commands first time everytime) then you need to train the dog on lead 100% of the time to gain the consistancy that is required to condition the behavior to the point that it is performed without question. By letting the dog off lead all you are doing is conditioning the dog that it has the choice whether it performs the command or not. As such sooner or later the dog will find something that is worth breaking the command for. However if the training is done in a way that requires the dog to perform 100% of the time then this is the way in which the behavior will be conditioned. In the end on lead or off will make no difference as the dog is conditoned to the point of repeating the command no matter where, when etc. The command has truly become a learnt responce.

You must practice the way you want the command performed.

Mick.

[JemarsSerena]

Here's how we are training the off leash, drop leash first. Serena is great on lead. What I have started doing is during our walks I will drop the leash and let her drag it. As long as she stays by my side she gets treats and praise. She does wear a pinch collar for training. If she tries to run or get too far ahead, I step on the leash and let her self correct. She learned quick. If I so much as shuffle my feet now she comes to a stop. Since we walk in town, I doubt I'll ever completely remove the leash unless in a secure place for training.

[funcen2]

Im sure there will be more posts but I have heard what I need to hear. No off lead until I'm sure she will listen 100% of the time. Thank you all for the wonderful advice.

[zeeshan66]

interesting. i assume that with the right training the dog can be left off the leash for long periods of time in all senarios

[Mick Trainer]

Originally Posted by zeeshan66

interesting. i assume that with the right training the dog can be left off the leash for long periods of time in all senarios

Umm, not quite seeing your point here. Once the dog is trained I can indeed be left off lead for long periods, once it is trained to follow commands, first time everytime in all scenarios.

Mick.