No Crating - what do you think?

[jazzharper]

I haven't had my own pup in almost 10 years. I've helped lot's of people train their puppies and insisted on the positive re-enforcement routine. I've always done crate training too. My 9yr Rott is dying of cancer (Spine) and will mostly likely have to be put down or will be gone in 2-3 months.

Anyway, I have three other dogs besides the pup. I've not been using the crate except at night. I had her housebroken in two days mostly because she was able to the follow the routine of the other dogs. She knows how to sit and wait for her food at feeding time. She also knows down and recall. She's also picked up on OUT and LEAVE IT though not incredibly consistent. She know how to retrieve as well. At only 13 weeks this is the farthest along I have ever had a pup in such a short amount of time.

I'm contemplating not crating her. Even at night Lastnight the crate wasn't properly latched and she got out and jumped on the bed. To sleep with the pugs. I didn't mind and since I and recovering from recent MCL surgery chasing after a pup to put her back in the cage didn't seem appealing, epspecially at 2AM. The pup did fine until she started biting and pulling my wife's hair. I rolled her and she stopped. (No comments on the roll please - I will do it in what I call NEVER DO situations and it's rare).

Question is do you think I can effectively train this pup by letting have the run of the house? SHe mostly hangs out with the other dogs and does what they do. I haven't noticed ANY chewing or destruction during the day while we're gone. I thinking about continuing this trend.

[Sharon Marples]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

I haven't noticed ANY chewing or destruction during the day while we're gone. I thinking about continuing this trend.

Well, good luck. I think that you have been very lucky that she has not destroyed anything so far. Unless she is a totally laid-back puppy, she will chew during her teething time. I definitely would be worried about leaving a young pup unattended in any areas where there are electrical cords or anything that she could pull off of a shelf, etc.

It's different if you are just talking about leaving her out at night, as long as she is confined to your room where you are and you can hear what is going on. But if she is young, I don't think giving her run of the house is a good idea yet. Too many things she can get into or destroy (do a search and see how many people have had couches, chairs, tables, etc. destroyed because they left their dog out of the crate for a short period of time).

[jazzharper]

I have had Rotts, GSDs and MALS before and crate trained them all. I never had more one dog at a time before so crates made sense. This pup is definately a little hellion but I think she spends her time pug hunting or sleeping outside with the other dogs. My 9yr Roots spends most of her time outside by choice, we just leave the back french doors wide open for them to go in an out. I am amazed at how fast this pup is picking up things but I'm sure it has to do with her watching the other dogs.

[michellemoose]

I have 3 dogs and only one was crate trained. I think it was easier to train Oskar my 8 month old with his two big brothers showing him the way. I started leaving Oskar 'free-range' around the house at about 3 months old. He was always with one of his brothers and had lots of chew toys. The house was puppy proofed and the only time he chewed anything up was if it was left it in his reach. He did enjoy chewing on the corner of a curtain but never touched the new leather couch we got just before he came into our lives. Each time I left him I would say 'please don't chew the couch'. What a good boy!

[jazzharper]

I think this is a much better way and she learns so much faster. I have notice my old rott won't let the puppy up on the couch or the bed - maybe because I don't allow the older one up there? It's interesting to watch the progression and the learn from more than just me. The pup has picked up one bad habit - drinking out of the toilet. I let my older one do it mostly because she's got cancer and I think it's easier for her to drink out of there. It's funny to see the pup do it because she just dangles her front legs while she sticks her head in there. I'll correct her later on in life. I knows it's clean because it only get used once a year or so when family visit from the northern climates during winter.

[SABELLESMOM]

13 weeks. I'm thinking it's not totally "safe" yet. I don't mean she isn't a well behaved little girl. By all indications, she's well on her way. Still, in the middle of the night, she may wake. She may do something totally unexpected like chew a phone or electric wire. It can happen.

Guided by other dogs, yes! A great way to learn many aspects of life in your home. But I'd leave that for things like tandem leash walking and not getting on furniture, like when you are home and watching.

[Luvs]

For the safety of your young puppy, PLEASE keep her crated at night and when you are gone.

Our boy Kaleb was a very good puppy. He used to sleep in my room loose when he would come stay the night at my house. I made sure everything was picked up and there was nothing he could get into, or so I thought.

One day when he was about 6 months old I woke up to a HUGE hole in my bedroom wall from Kaleb!!!! Kaleb had gotten bored and decided to re-decorate my bedroom for me. Keil decided Kaleb needed a little help and was more than willing to give him some assistance. I woke up to a loud RIP. I jumped up and turned on the light and found Kaleb (his nose was totally white) and Keil (who had white stuff hanging out of his mouth) sitting in front of the hole.

Needless to say, Kaleb NOW sleeps in his crate EVERY night I learned my lesson the hard way, don't make the same mistake I did.

Here is the hole Kaleb chewed in my wall.


I will NEVER NOT crate a puppy again!!!!

[AngelBunny]

Why take the chance that your uncrated 13 week old puppy will chew something that, at best, will make her sick, at worst kill her? She’ll have years and years when she doesn’t have to be crated. Despite the fact she’s a model citizen and has trained dogs on which to model her behavior, the fact is she’s still a puppy. I think the risk you run by not crating her is too high.

[jazzharper]

I know what has worked in the past and I can see what is working now. I'm not saying this method is for everybody. I do have all of the bedroom doors shut and I have my theater closed off as well. She's got nothing to chew on except her toys, and old couch and two old chairs. They haven't been touched. The only destruction I have noticed is to her toys and my basketball that we forgot to put away one night and in fact I don't think it was the pup that shredded my basketball as I don't think her jaws are strong enough for that.

This has been a very positive experience for us and the pup so far. Last night I left her out of the crate and she slept at the foot of the bed with my other Rott. No messes and no weird stuff until she jumped up on the bed at 4:30am wanting to go out.

Trust your dogs and they'll trust you.

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

Trust your dogs and they'll trust you.

I trust my dogs--but didn't trust them nearly so much as 13 week old puppies.

[jazzharper]

well, my pup is essentially a prisoner and I am the warden, I will award her good behavior until she shows me she's not worthy. If she abuses her freedom then it's lockdown for her!! :-)

[LavenderRott]

The other thing you might want to consider is this - at some point in her life, there may be a reason for her to be crated. Things like overnight stays at the vet, traveling, etc.

My dog trusts me and I trust him to display the behaviour that he has shown me and I don't think that he will ever be left loose in the house when I am not home or at night.

[2rotts]

LUVS- I just had to say how scary that picture is considering how close to the electrical socket they were. Well the 13 week old pup could be left out until it proves it can be trusted, would you want to come home to a dead puppy because of something that could have been avoided. If you choose not to crate at this age at least confine the pup to somewhere that is COMPLETLY puppy proof. And please keep in mind that the can be quite clever when it comes to finding trouble. Also being so small you may want to watch how much your bigger dogs are discipling her. As well all dogs should spend a certain amount of tme apart through out the day. Of course I am sure that others will have more to say on these points since I am in no way an expert.

[jazzharper]

I don't know how much the other dogs discipline the pup. I do know the old Rott tolerates her and makes sure the pup doesn't go on the bed or the couch. Maybe not during the day but I certainly have witnessed this more than a few times a night. I know the pup and the youngest pug play all the time while I am home, they chase and chase and mock fight, so it's likely they do it during the day if they are not sleeping. If anything I am more afraid the pup will think she's a pug more than a rott. There is nothing for the puppy to chew on except toys and other dogs.

If the pup is dead when I come home it means she was sick before I left or the older Rott killed. I highly doubt both. I suppose she could lick an electrical outlet but she doesn't have access to anything that is actually plugged in.

Why do you think the dogs should spend time apart? They are a pack and as such they like to be with each other.

[LavenderRott]

Yeah - I know what you mean about them being a pack. My mom has a standard poodle, a greyhound, a yorkie and a chihuahua. The first 3 are her pack. My mom has had visitors trapped in bedrooms by the pack, visiting dogs attacked by the pack, the pack has been known to run her fence causing neighbors to call the city.

But hey, whatever makes you happy.

Pack living and pack mentality can be rather dangerous and not something I would like any pup of mine to learn.