No Crating - what do you think?

[Sharon Marples]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

Why do you think the dogs should spend time apart? They are a pack and as such they like to be with each other.

They should know how to live by themselves. There are many reasons for having them do so. Separation Anxiety is one important reason.

What happens if she or the other dogs need to be quarantined for any reason? There are many instances where she might need to be shipped, or something may happen that creates the situation that any of the dogs need to be alone. It's a terrible thing for them to be in a pack all of their lives and then all of a sudden have to learn how to be by themselves.

I'd hate to think that I raised my dogs so that they could never be alone or never have the self-confidence it takes to live with whatever life presents to them.

Separation Anxiety is not only between dogs and their humans, it is also between dogs as well.

[jazzharper]

That makes sense but after nearly 10 years together, I'm not going to start now. I would never ship them anywhere and if something happens to me or my wife, it's already planned that one of my brothers would take them all.

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

Why do you think the dogs should spend time apart? They are a pack and as such they like to be with each other.

Because dogs live in a world of our making. This fact makes it imperative dogs learn to like spending times by themselves without the benefit and comfort of the pack.

There can be a place in this world for a dog who is intolerant of other dogs, but there's no place in this world for a dog who's intolerant of people.

[SABELLESMOM]

I have but one question of the OP. If you've already worked things out, have bedroom doors that close, don't care about the couch or old chairs, and it's been such a positive experience for you... Oh! And 10 years of doing things one way... Then why did you come here and ask advice?

Your responses clearly show, you have/had little intention of heeding any of it.

[jazzharper]

I clearly asked what you think NOT necessarily for your advice. This is a discussion forum correct? Not an I ask and then do what you say board...

[SABELLESMOM]

Right you are! And to every response that gave an opinion you found an argument. I find that unusual. Truly, so many members, a virtual wealth of knowlege. Have you found anything useful?

[jazzharper]

It's been very useful for me and for others I am sure. Offering different POV and "arguing" a stance only fosters further discussion. How else do you guys expect to investigate the entire issue? How do you know you're right? How do I know if I am right? We don't... I clearly stated I've never done this before and I cleary I think I have thought of everything as far as safety is concerned in regards to allowing a pup to roam free but I would be a fool to assume I have thought of everything. I give refuting details to my situation to create a more thoughtful and meaningful discussion. After all isn't that beneficial to the charter of this forum? Do you want me just to accept what y'all say and blindly move forward? Perhaps you're expecting me to roll over on my stomach in submission? Would you expect me to be a good molosser owner if I didn't display a bit of stubborness?

Ever lead a brainstroming session? Nothing is ever decided after the first round of opinions.

[Luvs]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

I know what has worked in the past and I can see what is working now. I'm not saying this method is for everybody. I do have all of the bedroom doors shut and I have my theater closed off as well. She's got nothing to chew on except her toys, and old couch and two old chairs. They haven't been touched.

Did you NOT see what my puppy did to my wall!?!?!?!?! There was NOTHING for him to get into. He had two kongs filled with goodies and a fresh bone to k eep him occupied. He got bored with those and started in on my wall. There was no reason for him to start chewing on my wall, there was no hole or anything there. He did it out of sheer boredom while I was sleeping not 2 feet away from him.

Originally Posted by jazzharper

This has been a very positive experience for us and the pup so far. Last night I left her out of the crate and she slept at the foot of the bed with my other Rott. No messes and no weird stuff until she jumped up on the bed at 4:30am wanting to go out.

Trust your dogs and they'll trust you.

Yeah, this had been a very positive experience for us too. Up until the day he ate a HUGE hole in my WALL!!!!! Yeah, I trusted him, a little too much.

As your puppy grows and really starts to teeth, she is going to find all kinds of things to chew on. I hope for her sake it isn't anything that may kill her. We got lucky that our boy didn't get hurt. I hope you are as lucky........

[jazzharper]

"Did you NOT see what my puppy did to my wall!?!?!?!?! There was NOTHING for him to get into. He had two kongs filled with goodies and a fresh bone to k eep him occupied."


I did but many of my walls are mostly stone so I ignored it for my situation. I do have some drywall in the bedrooms, closets and theater but most of the house is brick or sandstone.

[Luvs]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

I did but many of my walls are mostly stone so I ignored it for my situation. I do have some drywall in the bedrooms, closets and theater but most of the house is brick or sandstone.

Oh, well I guess that does make some what of a difference

I hope that everything works out for you. PLEASE for the sake of your puppy, make sure everything is picked up and all dangerous items are out of her reach. Put covers on your electrical outlets, like they do for babies. Also, if possible when you are not home, keep her apart from the other dogs. Even tho they are really good with your puppy, you never know what may happen.

Our two 3 yo rotties Akasha & Keil are awesome with puppies. In fact when my daughter or I teach puppy classes they go with us to help socialize the puppies. They let young puppies do pretty much anything they want to them. They allow them to climb all over them, chew on their brand new bones, eat from their food bowls, or take their toys. The only thing they don't allow, is when a young puppy to tries to nurse on them No matter how good they are or how much I trust them, I NEVER leave Akasha and Keil alone with a puppy if I am not around to supervise. You never know what might happen.

[damp]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

Why do you think the dogs should spend time apart? They are a pack and as such they like to be with each other.

Right BUT many many dogs live in pack with their human family and have a wonderful life.

Besides what Sharon said, the bonding between you and your pup will suffer, the pup will not learn confidence and independence, nor how to react in a responsible way to new situations, besides a pup needs much rest and sleep.

Sure a good old bitch can be a good mentor for pups and it will teach the pup manners, but anyway...a pup should never be unsupervised in a dog pack nor with just one adult dog!

Also the pup learns bad manners and adapt nervous and fearful behavior... but nothing about to gain confidence, if it's an appendix to older dog(s).

In a good pack we know the rang is set, but we also know that young adult plays with the muscles (so to speak) with the risk of their lives. We know that many things have an influence on the pack order: Maturity, weakness, old age, sickness, same sex just to mention a few.

Sooner or later one/some of your dogs will try to climb up the hierarchy!!!

[StuartsMom]

I have a question along these lines, I have crate trained my boy for several months, he is now 5 1/2 months and has slept very well in his crate. He is on a very strict routine, bedtime is at 10:30 pm and we get up at around 5:00am for a 45-60 min. walk. Well my new problem is at around 1:00 am or 2:00am every night for the past week or so he starts barking for about 45 min. Now I never let him out of his crate while he is barking and have tried to teach him the command "quiet" but I can't let the barking continue due to a great neighbor who thinks it is polite to come over at 5:00am and ask "why is your dog barking"? "What does he want"? Any ideas or suggestions on how to solve this problem?

[damp]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

Question is do you think I can effectively train this pup by letting have the run of the house? SHe mostly hangs out with the other dogs and does what they do. I haven't noticed ANY chewing or destruction during the day while we're gone. I thinking about continuing this trend.

Forgot to mention… when 4 adults some day join your pup having fun chewing (or teach/discipline it ) e.g. running away the curtains it pulled down, they will have lot of fun playing tug, until the adults tell the pup: You are a bad pup, biting the curtains…

My point is: It’s one thing having a chewing pup, but when the adults follow (and they many time do)…you really have a messed up house !!!

[SABELLESMOM]

Originally Posted by jazzharper

Offering different POV and "arguing" a stance only fosters further discussion.

Perhaps you're expecting me to roll over on my stomach in submission?

Ever lead a brainstroming session?

Discussion is one thing, arguing is unecessarily more confrontational and quickly becomes tedious and frustrating. It tends to shut pertinent discussion down for me. But perhaps I'm the only one who feels that way. So, I'll depart and let you have your fun.

Certainly not. And wouldn't that be to your back?

Why yes, I have.

[observer]

And, while you may not have walls like Carol's, you surely have electrical cords and other hazards.

While this has been an interesting discussion, if you had spent time reading this board at all before you posted, you would have known that the overwhelming majority here don't agree with your philosophy of letting puppies run loose in the house, with or without the influence of other dogs. I don't think you are going to change a thing you're doing, and neither will anyone else, as a result of this discussion.