What's the right amount of discipline for 12wk pup?

[moebiwan]

We've been reading lots on the types of discipline that is appropriate for a rottie and have tried most. But there is simply nothing that is working consistantly.

The shake can works only sometimes and never when he's already too excited.

The command/treat distractions works also only when he's calm.

What I'm really interested in is how we can get our 12 month old to calm down when he's too excited.

This leads to the reason for this thread, he's taken to jumping on the couch and will growl/bark when I try and tell him to come off. (we are teaching the off command) So is there a good way to teach him to not go on the furniture?

He's still a month away from being about to go to OB classes (waiting for his 3rd shot and availablity)

Any help would be appreciated!! Thanks!

[brunie's mom]

Welcome to the forums.
Is your pup 12 weeks old or 12 months old?? I am confused
If the pup is 12 months old it should have finished it's vaccinations a long time ago and been in obedience classes for 2 or 3 complete sessions already.

If the pup is 12 weeks old, as long as he has had 2 sets of vaccinations, then Puppy Kindergarden can be started. Ask your vet or ask around at local petfood stores or groomers etc....they often know of good trainers.

Does the pup know how to "sit" and "down"?? Keep him on a leash in the house, and if he tries to jump up on the furniture...pull him off with the leash. Try to stop him from jumping up before he even thinks of it with an "AAAAHHHH" sound.

If the pup is 12 weeks old, you really should not be disciplining him. He's just learning...try to make it positive. If he is going to do something you don't want..give him a command such as "sit"....or distract him with a toy.

If you do not want him to get into trouble...then keep him in the crate when he can't be watched or having him dragging a light leash when you are around to supervise.

Gina

[moebiwan]

Ah, sorry, he's 12 WEEKS, hopeful thinking I guess :)

Thanks for the advice. He's better these last few days but puppy school isn't starting for him until Feb.

So not much in terms of correction then, just distraction? When would you begin to discipline? Until after puppy school?

Thanks again!

[brunie's mom]

Is there anyway you can get him into a puppy class earlier?? This is such an important time in a young pups life. Not only with learning (they absorb like a sponge), but with socialization,etc.

I am not sure what you mean by discipline?? Are you meaning hitting, screaming or hurting? I have never disciplines my dogs.

If you start with a good foundation, and show leadership and consistency....usually a verbal correction is all most dogs need. If you have them on leash and they are not paying attention...you can give a mild leash correction.

Pups should not be disciplined....they should be learning manners now and everything should be positive. If the pup is doing something you do not want...a verbal correction is really needed or a distraction.

Once the dog really understand the command and really blows you off...then you can start correcting...either with a leash tug and a verbal correction or both.

Rottweilers are very smart dogs.

Gina

[moebiwan]

Unfortunately our vet is saying that he has to wait until his 3rd shot before they will allow him to go into any classes. The vet we are seeing did not give him kennel cough on his last shot so the 3rd one is the one where he will get it.

Well, our little Argo likes to ignore you and I don't know why. He's very spirited and my wife and I are being as leader like as we know. Firm tone of voice, meaning what we say, but he's unruely after only being out of his crate for 20 minutes. He gets to walk twice a day, short ones only, about 1 block each time. And plenty of play time so I don't think it's the energy factor.

We do distract him when he's getting into trouble either with a command or with a firm NO.

I don't hit him or anything like that, but when he's biting and nipping and jumping, what are we to do? Those are the times when he's not willing to do any of the commands he knows. Sit is the easiest to him and he will ignore you if he feels like he can. That's something I'm worried about as I not sure if we are being dominant enough for him.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Please do a search on puppy biting and nipping, etc..there has been volumnes written about it here.

[moebiwan]

I have and have still not seen anything that has had much effect with Argo. When we yelp, he ignores it. When we turn around or leave the room, he finds something else to do. Now, everyone says to get him into classes, and since he can't yet, are we just having to live with it for now until we can do formal training?

If there is a particular thread you are refering to, please point me to it with the title. I'm capable of doing searches and have already done so prior to posting a new thread. Thanks.

[BostonRott]

I would increase his exercise. A short walk twice per day is not very much for an active 12wk old pup.

If he is biting still and you don't like it:

a) Teething will be starting soon. This means increased chewing, but it will also mean that his bite will soften a bit, as his mouth will be sore.

b) When he bites you, grab his muzzle and press his upper lips into the edges/points of his teeth...hard enough to make him yelp. Let him learn that every time he bites, it is uncomfortable for him.

With the couch, he sounds like he thinks that he's above you already and that it is his right to be on there. Were he my puppy, I'd take him by the scruff and unceremoniously yank him right off, while saying sternly "off." If he growled at me, I'd tighten that hold on his scruff and make hard eye contact with him and tell him in a low hard voice "no!"

Discipline and corrections depend on the individual dog and their temperament. Some dogs are upset by a cross voice, others need more. Banja and Xcel are soft to my verbal corrections. Vikka, I could take a 2x4 to her head and she'd be like 'is there a fly in here??'

[moebiwan]

See that's what I mean, I don't know if the scruff is too much where others have said that during this time, all things should be fun.

I've actually tried the snout thing and he just flipped out and went even more crazy. Actually, most physical corrections just makes him way too excited and refuses to listen even more.

As of late, I have been trying to tell him to come "off" the couch and then he gets a treat. I try and catch him before he jumps and redirects with another command like a sit.

He's lessened the biting and will mouth you if he's happy and wants to play or if you try and take his bone away (which we're working on with the "give" command - he's good with toys and such but the rawhide bone is difficult)

[moebiwan]

As to the excercise, we tried to walk him more but then he got really hyper (jumping and grabbing the leash, nipping at you and refusing to walk) so I think he's actually frustrated and is actually getting too tired. We started today to reducing it to 2 walks at 1 block only. He seems to be better with that and not as hyper when he's home. At night though he's pretty crazy with energy since he's been in the crate the whole day while we are working.

I'm really looking forward to the puppy classes!!

[BostonRott]

When giving a physical correction to a pup who is escalating aggressive behaviour (biting, snarling), you need to remain CALM! Do not be loud, do not be herky jerky, this will only escalate the pup more. Be low in tone, calm and firm. Do not end things until he settles. If you have to hold onto his muzzle for 2 minutes straight, so be it. If you let go while he is struggling, he learns that works and the behaviour is re-inforced even more.

He sounds like a brat who needs to be put in his place, based on what you've said.

[myst]

have you considered not giving rawhide chew things? I have had to fish one out of one of my dogs throat. was not a happy thing to do.
you do use the "bribe" method of training? I am amazed at how fast my dog learns and is happy to learn. Lots of love and treats.
Is there any way you could have him go to daycare once a week? He would learn there from other puppies and dogs on bite inhibition and how to play nice with friends. and energy will be focused in a good way.

[rhylmarova]

Just a quick one from my own experience with our puppy. It takes time for them to learn things, such as no bite. I was going mad with our puppy for good three months before I started seeing improvements. He was excellent with sits and downs and all the basic learning but nipping and mouthing...until he was good five months. My trainer says that he is pretty strong willed pup but I just have to keep on the ball and we are getting there. As BostonRot said, stay calm and firm and consistent.

It helps to tire them out a bit in the evenings...not only by short walk but for example playing fetch or hide and seek. Mine loves it. 20mins of play and he will sleep like a baby. Now, at almost 7 months, he finally sleeps through night but also long enough in the morning....huray.

[moebiwan]

Thanks for all the excellent advice! Good news is that now we've shorted the walks a bit (to about 15 minutes each) and we are still doing 2 each day, plus 2 half hour play times, he's showing signs of being more calm.

Argo doesn't have trouble sleeping - I think he's an odd case where instead of dropping dead after a play session, he gets a second wind and goes hyper. We have to remind him to rest and sleep by telling him to go to his crate (which he does with a little bit of reluctance) and then he sleeps like a baby.

We have found a very reputable puppy camp for Argo to go to now, at least twice a week so my wife and I are very excited. We hope that this will burn off some of his pent up energy :) Thanks again!

[Gerrie]

I feel your pain!! I have a 12 week old pup female. She is little miss attitude. A true bitch!!! Ankle biter,grabs my pants, skirts, kids fingers and hair, you name it. I have raised meny a rott pup, some are placid some are a little high energy, and then!!!!... there's the orrangatang ( did I spell thar right?) . If this is your 1st Rott, you are experiencing a major challenge as they are all not like that. Puppy classes will be a good thing but...your pup needs to understand who's boss now!. It's a fine line with this type of temperment puppy as you need to break the willfulness without breaking the spirit. Having said that if they show me attitude, and they do the unexceptable behaviour again in a very short while, ( Rotts are smart, they don't forget, don't let him fool you) then they are pretty tough and they can handle a bit harsher discipline, my thinking towards this if your tough enough to dish it, your tough enough to take the discipline. I will tell you how I handle it once I know a couple of things. I'm tough on my pup right now, but in the same token she is none the worse for wear, and sleeping on my feet as I'm emailing you, hmmmmm ,that's a good sign, she still loves me and is starting to learn respect, and is starting to understand who is Alpha around here.The biting isn't so much the concern ,as the growling . When your pup growls does he curl up his lip as well? There are different growls, they usually growl with play, excitement, discomfort,annoyed, and aggresive .Does your pup give a hard eye to you? Do you know what a hard eye is? How does your pup posture his ears when he growls? Have you given your pup a raw bone to chew on yet? How does he respond when you get near him when he has a bone? A word of encouragement, pups who are usually of this type of temperment are also extremely bright and catch on to consistent training quickly. My pup barks on command already, sits already, and has started tracking already, and her recall is coming . I personally like pups with attitude now, but in the beginning of my life with Rotts it was intimadating, I ended up selling that Rott, if I had that one as a pup today, I would have very willingly accepted the challenge. My stud dog was a hard head as well, Now at the age of 6yrs., he's still a hard head but under control, and him and I have a great relationship,and he is a priviledge to own. He'd protect me to the death that's loyalty, the rewards of proper training, and handling a hard head, is worth all the effort. One word of advice, This training your taking your pup to , are they particularly knowledgable in training Rotts,as they are not!! like other dogs. Fill me in and we'll talk more.