Dogs don't like being hugged!!!

[miccmill]

Originally Posted by spidey

Learned behaviours do not always over-rule instincts, and it's dangerous to assume that they do.

I've been watching this thread with a lot of interest.

My dog is a very good example of a dog who should not be trusted to use learned behaviors over instinct. Granted, her temperment is not correct but observing her shows that she tries hard to follow the rules and sometimes even offers behaviors that appear calm and friendly. Upon closer observation you can tell that she's trying but she doesn't really understand or "get" what she's seeing from humans. Lots of human body language causes her to worry.

I sure wouldn't hug this dog and not because I think she'd bite me but because I KNOW it would make her uncomfortable. She would tolerate it but why do I want her to feel worry and discomfort. She "gets" games that have food and praise rewards, that includes all training. So why wouldn't I be doing those things with her to show affection?

[Patty1231]

Originally Posted by spidey

NOBODY is saying you shouldn't rub your dog's chest, where on earth did you get that from? And NOBODY is saying we shouldn't show our dogs affection. That's just silly.

Chill, dear. I've seen plenty of posts here from those with experience who frown on showing dogs affection. Same with dogs being on the couch, or the bed. Dogs are as individual as humans. And don't misconstrue my words to say I am giving dogs human characteristics. People have different comfort ranges with their dogs, and much of that is also based on the dogs individual personality, as well.

[MonteRiehl]

Originally Posted by Angus Boy

When on earth did I say that "with a dog you have no clue about that it is OK to hug their dog"??? I never said that, and you have no right to say that I did. And reverting to name calling; is this second grade? How is it dangerous advice to say that not all dogs hate being hugged? I NEVER said that all dogs love being hugged and everyone should hug their dogs, including those that you've never met. If I had said it, yes, that would be dangerous advice.

I would not advise people to hug a dog they've never met, or barely know.

Here's my twist on this for you, and why I see hugging dogs as dangerous. Life isn't always about what makes "you" happy, but about how others also learn from how "you" act. Your actions teach others, even if it's a lesson you do not intend to teach.

I am a parent, my 3 year old daughter watches and learns from everything I do. If she see's me hugging S'Dragon, then she would think it's ok to hug dogs. Children may not differentiate between breeds, sizes or temperments. She would simply think all dogs are for huggin because I saw dad do it.
Huggin a dog is a human behaviour that I would fear modeling for her. Not all dogs are going to accept being hugged. Most will let you get away with it, but it's simply not a safe behaviour. Especially with breeds in the working dog grouping.

I don't personally hug or cuddle or snuggle S'Dragon. I do pet, and reward him, and we have a great relationship. But it's about respect, he respects me, I respect him. I don't impose things on him that are clearly outside of behavioural temperment. I know that he does "suffer" a hug without reacting badly. However he would look insulted.

You really have to remember that rottweilers are working dogs. They have a genetic heritage that does not readily accept insults like "hugs".
Some will accept it, some will resent it, some will warn, some will defend themselves. You have to know your dog and understand their personality, both as individuals and as a breed.
Once you have a relationship, you can impose this human hug idea on your dog, and train them to accept it. I wouldn't call it a correct behaviour for the rottweiler breed.

There are dog breeds that have been deliberately modified to accept these kinds of human behaviour quirks. Breeds that their temperments have been deliberately shaped to keep them close to the "puppy mentality" for their whole lives. Golden retreivers come to mind here. Great dogs, and very snuggly. The have been "wired" that way as a breed.

I would be horrified if my rottweiler behaved like a golden. I expect him to behave in a manner that is true to his heritage. Courageous, Confident, Calm. With a strong working drive, and intelligence.

I am having difficulty (in my mind) putting a "snuggle puss" trained rottweiler into the breed standard for temperment. It's something that can be taught and modified, but then why would you want a rottweiler. If this was the "goal" or requirement for the dog, I'd be looking at a golden, or a cocker, or something like that in the breed temperment.


just my $.02

[Angus Boy]

Bruce Lanthier - "Think of it this way: dog shows submissive behavior to the leader by licking his face or rolling over. Most people have made it clear that they don't like their faced licked but do like hugging. The dog has replaced the submissive behavior of facelicking by nudging you under the arm and eliciting a hug. The dog is not doing this because he likes it, he is doing it because he is a dog and dogs show submissive behavior to the leader. Now, when someone that isn't the leader trys to do this dominant maneuver on this same dog, he may not like it much and, depending on his nature, may tolerate it or bite this person. The dog never likes the hugging but sees it as a submissive gesture to the leader and does it because that is what dogs do. It is why they lick the face of the Alpha for no apparent reason other than to reaffirm to the Alpha that he is the Alpha and not being challenged. So, to summarize: The dog is not eliciting a hug because he likes it, he is eliciting a hug to show submissive behavior to the leader. That is why the non-leader is usually the one the gets bitten in the face."


So dogs merely roll onto their backs to be submissive, and not because they like belly scratches? I don't see why a dog would roll over if he hates belly scratches, just as a dog would not nudge your arm if he hated being hugged. BOTH are submissive gestures and BOTH are initiated by the dog.

[Angus Boy]

A dog does not have to be a "snuggle puss" to accept a hug. It does not mean that he is not corageous, confident or calm. It means that he respects me, and is corageous, confident and calm enough to know that me or my husband hugging him is not a threat. A dog willing to growl or bite his own owner, would not be a corageous or confident dog, but a fearful one.

[Bruce Lanthier]

Originally Posted by Angus Boy

So dogs merely roll onto their backs to be submissive, and not because they like belly scratches? I don't see why a dog would roll over if he hates belly scratches, just as a dog would not nudge your arm if he hated being hugged. BOTH are submissive gestures and BOTH are initiated by the dog.

If a dog hated being submissive you can bet he wouldn't roll over and he wouldn't nudge your arm. But that is not going to make any sense to you because it doesn't fit what you want to believe and that seems to be that dogs think like humans.

I think I'll go back to being a fool that doesn't post, I am getting tired of arguing with the ones that do.

[autumn]

Think of it this way: A dog shows submissive behavior to the leader by licking his face or rolling over. Most people have made it clear that they don't like their faced licked but do like hugging. The dog has replaced the submissive behavior of facelicking by nudging you under the arm and eliciting a hug. The dog is not doing this because he likes it, he is doing it because he is a dog and dogs show submissive behavior to the leader. Now, when someone that isn't the leader trys to do this dominant maneuver on this same dog, he may not like it much and, depending on his nature, may tolerate it or bite this person.

Why then do my dogs do this to my husband, my mom, and my sister. I am their leader so am I to believe that they are showing submissive behavior to them also? As far as I know there is one leader, not several.

Also, once again, do your dogs think you are a dog and see you as a threat?

[Bruce Lanthier]

Originally Posted by autumn

Why then do my dogs do this to my husband, my mom, and my sister. I am their leader so am I to believe that they are showing submissive behavior to them also? As far as I know there is one leader, not several.

Also, once again, do your dogs think you are a dog and see you as a threat?

Pack dynamics. Those people are either higher in the pack order or under the protection of the pack leader. The omega will show submissive behaviors to all the other dogs in the pack. Your dogs probably have a setup amongst themselves and I'll bet your most dominant dog does not show any submissive behaviors to your weakest dog. But your most dominant dog should be lower than all humans, except children, and that is why they are under the protection of the pack leader. Watch your dogs a little more, they may teach you something.

My dogs see me as their leader and the source of everything good, or bad, in their lives. That is why they live by my rules and do not make their own rules.