Age to start puppy socialization class

[JBCB]

Just wondering if I'm no longer properly informed about these things. We have just started Tessa in a puppy scoialization class (she's 13 weeks) after giving her a week after her 12 week immunization shots (Parvo, etc...) to help build immunity. The place we're taking her to takes them between 12 - 16 weeks of age, which makes perfect sense to me -- ie. after they have had sufficient shots. My question (and the reason for this thread) is that there are 2 pet training "academies" in our area that offer puppy socialization but start them at 8 weeks (one not taking them after 12 weeks), and I thought that because of the threat of disease it wasn't advisable to introduce your puppy to other dogs until they were properly vaccinated. Am I wrong about this? Has something happened in the 7+ years since we adopted Kaeleigh and Hannah to change this?

[damp]

People disagree about this. (Do a search about puppy socialization here.) I am a firm believer, that real socialization must be done before 12 weeks old and can’t be replaced later, only patched up. I have said here 100 of times… if you use common sense when you introduce a not full-vaccinated pup to people, places, dogs, sounds, smells etc. etc. more pups (down the road) will die from lack of socialization than lack of vaccination.
However I would not take an un-vaccinated pup to puppy classes (common sense) but that does not mean my pups don't come out and explore or are exposed to the "whole" world. There are many other ways to socialize than puppyclasses.

[JBCB]

Just wanted to say that there was another rottie puppy (owned by a friend) who contracted parvo about 2 months ago. He was in a puppy socialization class at the time but I'm not saying that's where he got it. He has fully recovered but it was scary for a time. Add to that the fact that an adult rott in our area died last summer from parvo, plus the fact that rotties seem susceptable to it, and you can see why I'm concerned (maybe paranoid?). Plus 7 years ago it seemed that no school would take a puppy BEFORE it was 12 weeks! What happened in the interim?

BTW, Tessa has interacted with some other dogs before this class, but they were dogs where we knew both the dog and owners well. Also she has had Hannah to interact with so I'm not worried about her lack of socialization, just the apparent "lack of concern" about having lots of not fully immunized puppies interacting. Just wondering.

[BigOX3]

We took a rotty puppy to classes at 8 weeks and lost her at 12 weeks to parvo. This was several years ago but all I know is I would rather have waited until 12 weeks and just worked harder with her than lost her completely. Its hard to say if she got it there but in any event I hate to think that she could have gotten it somewhere else and given it to other puppies in the class. Our rotty now is 3 years old and all we did was wait..he was almost 14 weeks when he went to classes and parks and he has no socialization problems. I think with a little extra work its well worth waiting.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by JBCB

Just wanted to say that there was another rottie puppy (owned by a friend) who contracted parvo about 2 months ago. He was in a puppy socialization class at the time but I'm not saying that's where he got it. He has fully recovered but it was scary for a time. Add to that the fact that an adult rott in our area died last summer from parvo, plus the fact that rotties seem susceptable to it, and you can see why I'm concerned (maybe paranoid?). Plus 7 years ago it seemed that no school would take a puppy BEFORE it was 12 weeks! What happened in the interim?

BTW, Tessa has interacted with some other dogs before this class, but they were dogs where we knew both the dog and owners well. Also she has had Hannah to interact with so I'm not worried about her lack of socialization, just the apparent "lack of concern" about having lots of not fully immunized puppies interacting. Just wondering.

Common sense, as damp said, is number one priority. Old school thoughts tend to suggest (and demand!) that keeping pups in 'sterile' home environments until all vacs were performed was the norm - and still is amongst many older breeders that I know. Not only am I against this train of thought, I believe it can be downright dangerous with the likes of a rottweiler and other large working breed dogs.

With all the information available these days at our fingertips, in regards to the importance of getting young pups out and about, schools of thought on this topic have changed dramatically over the past few years. Confidence building is job one when rearing a puppy, so if you wait too long, you've truly deprived the pup of necessary stimuli and problem solving skill building, and confidence building - which might not be so important for the truly strong nerved pup, but it's terribly important for the rest of them.

12 weeks IS the cutoff age for true imprinting and socialization. After that, all you're accomplishing with a pup is desensitization, and there's a big difference between imprinting and desensitization.

I teach a puppy class, and I have had pups as young as 7 weeks (a special case), and 8 weeks in my class. All puppy owners must provide proof of vaccination, and I provide them with a list of 'approved' socialization field trips where they must take their pups to before the age of 12 weeks. They are assigned 5 new environments to explore with their pup each week... and the great thing is.. where I send them, their pups are exposed to up to 20 environments, and 1000's of people by the time 12 weeks of age rolls around. I can't think of anything better for a dog that must live safely in our society today.

In regards to dog/dog interraction in class, it's really not necessary, as pups have learned what they need to in regards to dog politics in the whelping box. I will allow a little play at the end of a class, so people will have a totally pooped pup when they get home, and an evening of peace and quiet.

Even doing things like taking a young pup through a drive through car wash is excellent socialization. I always suggest to my class to think outside the box - think of experiences in which you can guide your new pup to new heights of confidence building... Dog parks and Pet specialty stores are definite no no's with a young pup (or any dog as far as I'm concerned) - home stores and grocery stores are a yes yes... you just don't want to frequent places where strange dogs of unknown vaccination hang out, that's all.

Common sense, and an imagination are all that's necessary to socialize a puppy properly before the age of 12 weeks.

Hope this helps.

[Miabella]

I am of the same thought as damp and poohbearsmom. My pup just started puppy kindergarten at 10.5 weeks old. Our club offers puppy kindergarten for pups between 10 and 20 weeks old at the start of the class. I am the instructor for this class, so I actually chose this date as when I wanted my pup to start. He has been vaccinated once with Proguard DPv at 8.5 weeks, and I have had him out and about meeting people in areas that are dog-scarce with non-porous footing since I got him at 7.5 weeks.

I also truly believe that all true "socialization" must take place before 12 weeks, everything else after that is just de-sensitization. I'd rather take the calculated risk using common sense than end up with an adult that was not properly socialized.