6 Months old and Still biting, need more advice.

[snhagood]

Let me just state for the record that I have been coming here at least twice a week and doing a search for "biting" or "bite" and reading the postings that I've found. I have applied different techniques, trying one and when it ceases to work, trying another technique that people have advised in this forum. My 6 month old, 60 pound Rottie is still biting, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

I contacted an obedience school when she was 10 weeks old, and got her signed up for classes. Unfortunately, we experienced flooding, and everything got delayed by months, so she won't start formal training until January, but in the meantime I have taken the lead and began working with her myself. I have successfully taught her to sit, and stay, and to come when called. "Lay" has been giving us problems, but I'm confident that if I'm still having problems when classes start, I'll be shown a better way to teach that command and she'll learn it in no time, she's very bright.

At first, when I got her, she was biting ALL the time. I couldn't even pet her without her biting me. Since she was teething, I tried to overlook it. When I posted here the first time about it, I was given all sorts of advice, and as her teeth began coming out, her biting was almost non existant. Now, she's got her adult teeth, and she's biting again. For example.... today she jumped up on the baby gate. I walked over to her and said "Down!" She lunged towards me to try and bite my shirt/me and I said "Out!" to her in a deep voice. That used to get her to come to a dead stop with whatever she was doing, and she was told "Good girl!" and given some form of reward (petting, snack, etc.). "Out!" no longer works, and she just lunged at me again. I opened the gate, put her in a 'sit' position, placed my hands through her collar, and held her still to get her to calm down. She did. I told her "good girl," let go and she nipped at my hand.

I was almost afraid to post here, because I see a lot of times when someone ask for help, people tend to fill in the things they don't know about the situation and assume things that are sometimes not very helpful. I don't know if I've included enough information, but if I haven't I certainly will in my replies. I'm just at a loss as to why she isn't understanding that biting is not acceptable. I'm always consistent with not letting her get away with it - teeth on skin = "No!", and she's given something else to chew on. I did well with my other dog (who has now passed away) on this issue, to the point where if I played with him and he wanted to bite, he would run around the house until he found one of his chew toys and chew it instead of daring to bite me. I'm just having major problems getting this hard-headed girl to understand that biting is not an option.

At this point, I will try anything. I live with my mother and she had surgery Monday, and now has to have more surgery tomorrow, and my patience level is at an all time low, so I guess that's why I'm wanting help now, because I've gotten to the place where "she'll grow out of it" and "she's just a puppy" mean nothing to me. At 6 months, I personally feel that she should not be doing this. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Judi W]

Without knowing her and how reactive she is, you might consider that, (although this recommendation might not be PC), she is no longer a baby puppy but becoming an adolescent and I think it is more than time that she receive a correction and one that makes a lasting impression. We are not talking about puppy mouthing here, but bites. That is quite different from mouthing or puppy grabbing. There is a point where the puppy passport expires and the young dog is expected to responsible for its actions and responsible for the reaction that occurs. She is obviously past the point where begging her not to bite is appropriate and that is what (at this age) redirecting and rewarding becomes. One should not be expected to reward a 6 month old for "not" biting. An older household dog would have creamed her at this point. Time she went to church and got religion.

[Carol Burke]

And in case you didn't read between the lines in Judi's post, the next time she puts her teeth on you you need to deck her.

[Judi W]

Humm, Carol, did you think I was being a mite bit too subtle? Guess so, thanks for boosting up the clarity.

[snhagood]

Thanks Judi, Carol. I wasn't sure if I should use that much force with her, because the time that I did hit her on the nose for biting, she lunged at my hand. I guess it's time to put the love taps in the puppy bag and step it up a knotch. I didn't want to do anything to make her want to bite even more, and in my mind, hitting her would. But I'm willing to do whatever it takes, so the next time she does that, I will handle it, and let you know how it goes. Thank you both so much - hearing that from the two of you gives me more of a base to work from, cuz I didn't want to do that if it wasn't necessary.

Again, thank you. Judi, I agree with everything you said 100%.

[Judi W]

Waving your hand around will get you bitten again. Pick her up by the collar, give her a hellacious shake and get in her face with a long forceful tirade about the fact that you are finished taking crap from her. A CTJ meeting does not involve actual hitting, it involves a good dose of intimidation. Every individual of any species should make sure they are going to be able to win BEFORE they initiate an attack. She has been cruising along thinking just that. Time for her to learn there is such a thing as biting off more than she can chew.

[MicheleMarie]

I had a real problem with my dog biting too. I don't think she had enough time with her mama. It was getting really old and it hurt, so after hearing the term CTJ (come to Jesus) meeting, I decided that was just what she needed. The next time she bit me, I was ready. I grabbed her by the jowl (lots of loose skin there) and the scruff of her neck and pushed her down on the floor and said "no bite". I also figured I'd try a little dog languange and while doing this, I was baring my teeth. I wouldn't recommend this for any dog, but it stopped our problem almost immediately. After that, all I would have to do is make a mean face and say "no bite" and she'd look submissive and settle down. I've never had such an assertive and bossy dog before, but then again, this is my first Rott. It's not easy finding the appropriate correction for your dog. You might want to check out the book "Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. It's really interesting and helps get you to the root of the problem. BTW - My girl just turned 2 years old and is finally starting to mellow. She is still bossy, but I wouldn't have her any other way!

[snhagood]

Judi: Gotcha, 100%. I like that idea a lot, it's actually what I had been trying NOT to do because I didn't think it was a good thing, but maybe I should have just gone with my gut instinct. I love this dog so much, and I love her fearless attitude, but I'm absolutely done with her nipping and biting, so a CTJ meeting is exactly what she needs. My gut kinda thinks this will work, too. Definitely sits better in my gut than hitting her.

Michele: I like that idea of baring teeth at her, also. And I realize that one dose might not be enough, so I'll try to be consistent should I need to have another CTJ meeting with her. I'll check out that book also. You and I have something in common - this is my first Rottie too!

Could totally just hug you all for your help. Thanks so much.

[Judi W]

The appropriate correction is one that works and should not need to be repeated although a sound that recalls the memory might be called for on occasion. If you are repeating and repeating yourself, you are nagging the dog and making yourself appear an ineffective person and certainly not a leader to be respected.

[doggie]

[b]does your dog show aggression, i.e growling, eye contact,or even have hair stand on her back?
unfortunately worse case scenerio is that she has bad wiring and should be destroyed. all dogs bite, they dont have thumbs,its weather its aggression, or fear impulse that causes her to snap. obedience is key, may i suggest some videos of schutzhund obedience. a guy named gotfried dildei, uses pos reinforcement with food. the fastest way to a dogs brain is through its stomach.is the dog food aggressive? start there. the problem with wacking her is that she may call your check with a real full bite which can break bone as well as skin. Rottweilers are mentally strong dogs so another option for correction would be an remote collar. look at lackland airforce bases program with high drive dogs.
rydog

[Judi W]

This is simply a 6 month old brat.

[doggie]

i have trained 3 rottweilers over the past 12 years so i know how difficult they can be. their courage is something to be preserved. physically punnishing the dog even if she does submit breaks down drive and confidence. correction is a tool used best sparingly. set the dog up to succeed at doing what you want.then you both win. the electronic collar is good because you can pinpoint the moment of the undesired behavior,and the behavior itself is the punishment. you still maintain a non violent relationship with yoour dog. which is critical for obedience. the worse thing i could do to punish my dog is ignore her. even on the field if she refuses a behavior i just walk away from her and she initiates communication by heeling tightly, so i trip usually. but we try the behavior again and she does it exuberently. work on the long down, if you can teach her 2 things it should be to pay attention to you to a fault , and patience.

[snhagood]

Hi doggie! No, my dog isn't aggressive, or mean. When she's nipping at me or anyone else, it's never in meanness, it seems an attempt to get attention or something, but I am never fearful when she's doing it, just seriously annoyed. Judi has corresponded with me since I brought the dog home from Virginia, and as she stated, she's simply a brat. I've tried ignoring her, correcting her, rewarding her for not biting, turning my back on her, darn near barking at her, and nothing thus far has worked. I completely agree with Judi's assessment, though I am open to suggestions. But I will tell you that I plan on using a CTJ meeting the very next time she does this. Honestly, I don't have the patience to coddle her and this behaviour any more, she just needs to stop. It's unacceptable for her to still be biting at this age. I got her at 8 weeks old, and I've been trying since a few days after getting her until now to get her to stop biting myself, my mother, and my friends. I definitely won't hit her, but I'm going to make it very clear to her that biting is a no-no. I'll check into collars also, as I said I'll try anything at this point.

[JeanT]

I think tapping or bopping or certainly hitting any dog in its face it almost certain to cause an instinctive reaction in the dog to bite back (or if fearful, to bite back when you withdraw and think its over). A swift collar grab (control) with fearsome face and voice (yours) in surprised face (hers) will probably be enough intimidation to prevent a recurrence.

[doggie]

the collars are handy for off leash obedience also. if the dog likes to bite thaen maybe you should show her when its o.k. to bite. schuthund club local to your area should be a great help. go to a training session and just talk to people, it is amazing what dogs can do and usually behavior need only be channeled. dogs are geared with certain drives, such as food, prey,fight or flee and sex drive.