6 Months old and Still biting, need more advice.

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by doggie

the collars are handy for off leash obedience also. if the dog likes to bite thaen maybe you should show her when its o.k. to bite. schuthund club local to your area should be a great help. go to a training session and just talk to people, it is amazing what dogs can do and usually behavior need only be channeled. dogs are geared with certain drives, such as food, prey,fight or flee and sex drive.

Don't know why you are pushing an electric collar?
This dog is a pup...she is 6 months old and has never had any formal obedience classes...she does not even know how to down.

From what I understand ...e-collars are best used with professional ,experienced help and the dog should know the commands...it's to proof commands.
This poor pup would be zapped by an e-collar and not know what hit her.

Gina

[doggie]

they dont just zap. use sounds and vibration.

[LynnS]

Originally Posted by doggie

the collars are handy for off leash obedience also. if the dog likes to bite thaen maybe you should show her when its o.k. to bite. schuthund club local to your area should be a great help. go to a training session and just talk to people, it is amazing what dogs can do and usually behavior need only be channeled. dogs are geared with certain drives, such as food, prey,fight or flee and sex drive.

I have to disagree here. Following your analogy playing tug with a puppy, should give it an adequate outlet so that it stops nipping? While I am not opposed to building drive, I think this is going to nothing to curb bratty behavior in a six month old puppy.

[doggie]

tug is a game of reward

[aquarius3079]

I also had a "meet God" as I call it with my male at this age. I was at my parent's house and I went to take a bone out of his mouth and he made contact. My fault since he had not been taught to release such high value items yet but still I was mad! The next time we went through an attitude episode from him I grabbed him by the skin around his neck and screamed like a banshee! My dad looked at me like I was nuts and I went on for a good 30 seconds freaking out on him like he understood my words. It did a world of good and I never had gruff like that from him again that warranted such a reaction. Good luck and don't be afraid to verbally let loose and make her get the message.

[doggie]

my bratty 6 mo old dog is now a 7yr old therapy dog

[LynnS]

Originally Posted by doggie

tug is a game of reward

I realize that however you said that usually behavior just needs to be channeled correctly.

[snhagood]

Just wanted to update before I get my very long day started. I haven't had to do anything to 'the brat', named Talyn, yet. Her biting seems to happen mainly when she's very excited, but she bit my chin a few nights ago while lying between my legs looking up at me. Brat! I also realize that a CTJ meeting isn't a form of dog training, it's to correct a bad behaviour, so as Judi said, if done correctly it shouldn't need to be done ever again. Does anyone have any suggestions on 'techniques' for this meeting, should we have to have one? She jumped on the gate this morning and bit at my shirt, and I grabbed her collar, put her in a sit, but it wasn't anywhere close to what I probably need to do. Those of you who have used this before, how did you do it? And how old was your dog at the time? I read an article this morning randomly on the web where a guy had to have a CTJ meeting with his horse - broke his hand in the process, but never had that issue pop up again. I'm just wondering how others handled their meetings so I can get an idea of what I may need to do.

Thanks again, everyone!

[Judi W]

Any correction should be appropriate to the offense. Grabbing your shirt is not biting your flesh and that correction was appropriate. Don't ever let your dog kid you that (unless it is in a rousing game of tug) it doesn't know exactly where its teeth are heading. My rule has always been if it tastes like people skin you keep your jaws off. No, that does not inhibit the dog from using its drive appropriately. It does keep the dog from using people as a chew toy which is never correct.

I have already described what I consider an appropriate response to being bitten. She is not going to get any smaller, nor is she going to out grow this when she is having such fun unless she is given a reason to change. What happens is, that if ignored and treated in a passive manner, the dog actually simply becomes an unwelcomed guest and disliked by most who have to be around it. I do not see this as a positive thing. Not to inform a dog when it is wrong is simply lying to the dog and misleading it. Unfortunately when this happens, the correction as the behavior becomes set and the dog becomes older, has to be harsher than would ever be necessary had it been stopped at an early age. Now that is abuse caused by neglect of responsibility.

[snhagood]

Thanks, Judi - again - for your insight. I had a discussion with my sister this afternoon about an experience she went through with her Rottweiler, Jabba (God rest his li'l sweet soul). When she got him, she had come home for a visit, he was probably about 12 weeks old. He was a landshark, and he was mean about it. He bit ankles, and he bit hard, and was just generally as mean as a snake. One day, a number of months later, he bit my sister's hand hard enough to break the skin. She and he had a meeting, and he never bit her again. In fact, that dog was one of the sweetest dogs I've had the pleasure of knowing. Perhaps this is a problem I should have tackled with her initially, but I was trying the redirection that everyone suggested, and I didn't see anything about what age redirection becomes redundant, so I tried that approach for months. I probably should have asked for help sooner, but I thought I'd find someone with a situation like mine and find a helpful tip. Lesson learned.

I'm determined to be very consistent with her, stopping her from all behaviours that I don't want her to do instead of letting things go, because that will just create a poorly behaved dog that no one enjoys being around.

[snhagood]

Me again! Just wanted to do an update.

I think that once I got out of the mode of rewarding good behaviour and punishing THIS particular behaviour, she began to snap out of it. The first small meeting (and I refer to it as a small meeting because I didn't put the fear of God in her, nor was that my intention), she bit my hand. Teeth on skin, no matter what the pressure, is a bite to me. I grabbed her collar and shook her while I told her "Bad girl, you don't bite!" and released her by pushing her backwards. This happened while outside, so I took her in the house, put her in the kitchen where her kennel is, and closed the baby gate. About 10 minutes later, I played with her for a while, and then went to bed. Although I've had to do this more than once, it's working. She has gotten less mouthy, and I've been correcting her EACH and EVERY time she puts her teeth anywhere near my skin or anyone else's, which has been almost non existant - definitely no where as bad as it was before I posted here.

We haven't yet had to do a CTJ meeting, and I haven't felt yet that her actions have warranted anything that severe yet, but I will not hesitate if it's needed. Thanks to everyone for the fantastic advise, I think we're turning the corner with this mouthing issue.

[Judi W]

You might not need a religious experience. I have found that most of dog behavior is determined by the owner's attitude. Dogs do what they figure they can get away with and once I can get a handler to change attitude from "oh dear, what can I do" do "hey mister who do you think you're messin with" the dog senses this and things tend to straighten out quite nicely. It is well-intentioned, but confused positioning on the part of the owner that leaves the dog to its own devices. Once you get over the idea that it might hurt the poor little darlin's feelings if you flat out refuse to allow the biting, things seem to straighten right up. No one reads body language, sound and positioning better than a dog so they know right off who they can mess with and who not. This is why the sometimes naughty dog doesn't put a foot wrong when the instructor takes the lead. Having a 'tude doesn't mean being a bully, it simply means you are not the one to be bullied.

[unxchange]

to: Judi W, I've read your replies about holding a dog by the back of the collar up until he/she gives up and then let them down. Will that hurt my dog since he will be lifted up the ground?

My 8 week old is still biting (if u remember my problem) .. ive tried the scruff thing , but it doesnt work so I am going to try your collar trick and see if it works.

Should i scream out "NO bite" while holding him up or just stay silent?

[Judi W]

I don't scream ever. High pitched sounds simply stimulate activity and also make you sound like a baby of some sort.

With a baby puppy, (which is what 8 weeks old is) I do not ever recommend lifting the dog, simply holding it immobile. For older dogs whose puppypassport has expired, only the front feet are off the ground when you lift a dog by the collar. Not sure how an 8 week old pup can be still biting, as it should have just arrived in your home. Please do not take recommendations that are for a 6 month old dog and apply them to a baby 8 week old.

[unxchange]

Judi W., when you say holding the puppy immobile, how do you do that? By the collar? If so how do you stop the puppy from twisting and turning to their backs. When I try to hold my puppy by the collar, he twists and turns to try to get out of it and then tries to bite me.

Just now, I held it by the collar and he still tried to reach to bite me and he did, it really frustrates me.

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