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  #1  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:28 PM
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removing puppies from mother early and malnutrition?

My co-worker just got a puppy where the breeder had taken the mother away at four weeks and put the puppies on kibble. The breeder also wanted the pups picked up by their new owners at seven weeks. The vet was examining my co-worker's puppy (now 9 weeks old) and commented that the puppy must have been pulled from the mother too early as it was showing signs of malnutrition...apparantly, the toenails turn whitish if the puppy isn't getting enough nutrition.
Does anyone know if they'll be any long term medical problems resulting from this? My co-worker has noticed her puppy drinks a LOT of water, not sure whether that behavior is linked to this or not (thought perhaps the pups learned to drink more water to compensate for the fluid they weren't getting from their mother since they had to eat kibble vs milk)...fyi, these pups were well bred but not understanding why the breeder would do this and my co-worker is now worried about possible long term damage as a result...thanks for any responses.
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  #2  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:06 PM
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Post Re: removing puppies from mother early and malnutrition?

I'm not a breeder....but I think many breeders start their puppies at around 3-4 weeks on kibble. They leave them with their mothers to nurse, but often they start eating kibble/gruel by that age. What food was the breeder feeding to these puppies?? If this was a decent kibble...there is no reason for malnutrition...unless this one pup did not get enough to eat??

If the breeder was feeding a good food, and fed enough and often ....it really would not cause malnutrition. What was the reason that the dam was separated from the puppies at 4 weeks of age?? Most breeders leave the dam with the pups longer.

Gina
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  #3  
Old 01-24-2013, 03:06 PM
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Re: removing puppies from mother early and malnutrition?

The Heeler that is laying at my feet was sold as soon as she was even interested in food & dumped at a shelter when she wouldn't eat & wouldn't be quite. Penny is now 7yrs old & is a very muscular healthy girl that has only been sick one time in her life (she tried to eat a toad)
The last male Rottie that lived here, was pulled from his dam at 4wks by a shelter. They had an outbreak of Parvo & thought it safer to get the pups out of there (the dam was too aggressive to handle) Maybe not a good decision, but the one male I kept for myself was the runt. Dargo also lived a healthy life. I lost him to cancer right before he turned 8yrs, but as a pup, I didn't see any difference in health & he was full of internal parasites. He was very sick & dehydrated when I first brought him here, but quickly recovered. He is the dog in my gallery laying on his back, after emptying the toy basket
These are just my experiences, so I may have just been lucky. My vet thinks you can always turn things around- I even bottle fed a pup once.
I don't think your friend has anything to worry about.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:25 PM
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Re: removing puppies from mother early and malnutrition?

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Originally Posted by brunie's mom View Post
I'm not a breeder....but I think many breeders start their puppies at around 3-4 weeks on kibble. They leave them with their mothers to nurse, but often they start eating kibble/gruel by that age. What food was the breeder feeding to these puppies?? If this was a decent kibble...there is no reason for malnutrition...unless this one pup did not get enough to eat??

If the breeder was feeding a good food, and fed enough and often ....it really would not cause malnutrition. What was the reason that the dam was separated from the puppies at 4 weeks of age?? Most breeders leave the dam with the pups longer.

Gina
She was feeding Purina Puppy chow....the mother had eleven puppies. My co-worker thought she might have pulled the mom so early because of the number of pups (her boyfriend thinks another reason might have been because poops of puppies eating kibble are much easier to clean up than if they're still nursing) but no reason was given. Glad to hear it probably won't have lasting effects...we were wondering if the immunity pups get from the mother's milk might be lacking somewhat...or whether skeletal development might be affected, especially hips.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:31 PM
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Re: removing puppies from mother early and malnutrition?

The immunity is passed on in the initial colostrum, it doesn't carry on being passed through milk, so no worries there.

I must say this breeder sounds like a lazy excuse for a dog owner.
Many pups are hand reared from birth without any sign of malnutrition, so I cannot agree with the vets opinion of that's why there's sign of malnutrition. The reason the pups are showing signs of malnutrition is because they were being poorly and inadequately fed. Also, given the incompetance of the rearing standard of the pups, I have to be concerned how badly the bitch was fed while she was pregnant and rearing.
I'm sure the pups will catch up, but I hope your friend spreads the word about the poor animal husbandry of the person she got the pup from.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:51 PM
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Post Re: removing puppies from mother early and malnutrition?

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Originally Posted by fostermom View Post
She was feeding Purina Puppy chow....the mother had eleven puppies. My co-worker thought she might have pulled the mom so early because of the number of pups (her boyfriend thinks another reason might have been because poops of puppies eating kibble are much easier to clean up than if they're still nursing) but no reason was given. Glad to hear it probably won't have lasting effects...we were wondering if the immunity pups get from the mother's milk might be lacking somewhat...or whether skeletal development might be affected, especially hips.
Sounds like a lazy, BYB...not a quality COE breeder. From what I understand, that when the pups are nursing, usually the bitch will still keep them clean. Once they are eating solids...then the bitch will no longer clean up.

Puppy Chow is a poor quality food...it's all corn and grains...with vitamins and supplements in it. Even eating Puppy Chow, the pup should not be malnurished.
The dam may not have been fed properly, and maybe was not producing enough milk? or the puppies were not fed enough? I would imagine 11 puppies would go through lots of food till they leave?? With Puppy Chow, they would have to feed HUGE amounts to get the right amount of calories. I would also suspect a heavy worm load on these puppies. If the breeder was feeding poor quality food, and took away the dam so early...I suspect they were not wormed on schedule or even at all.

Gina
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2013, 05:08 PM
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Re: removing puppies from mother early and malnutrition?

over the years I have discovered an amazing amount of breeders both here in North America AND overseas (Germany etc) remove the bitch from pups TOTALLY by 5 weeks so that the bitch trims up for the show and trial ring faster.

personally I think it is inhumane both mentally and physically for the pups.

Also in many states it is ILLEGAL to place pups younger than 8 weeks old and most states also require a vet health certificate

as to malnutrition, even feeding puppy chow there would have to have been a food volume deficit or worm overload to produce a malnutrition state

Water volume intake can be a UTI, worm overload (causing anemia), flea overload (causing anemia) or physical issue

I would have bloodwork and a full and complete fecal analysis done on the puppy as well as a urine culture
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