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  #1  
Old 03-14-2012, 11:09 PM
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International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

Looking into purchasing a rottie pup and breeder states that they are akc and come from International Grand Champion Bloodlines. What significance if any does that have when buying my puppy? The breeder has both parents and raises all parents and puppies as family members. Breeder wants $700 so any input would be great. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2012, 02:36 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

It may be worth your while to go through the stickies and do a search on how to find a good COE Breeder. I see red flags all over with this particular Breeder. They haven't really told you much about the puppies at all.

There's so much you should be learning about the Sire and Dam and a good starting point is if these dogs have had their health clearances done with that being at the very minimum hips and elbows and preferably eyes, cardiac and thyroid. SAS is a known killer in our breed and having an echo done lessens the chances of you loosing your dog to this dreadful disease.

Please do more research in Breeders and do as much reading as you can here on the forum on what to look for in a responsible reputable breeder before you make your purchase and end with heartbreak and possibly sky high Vet bills.

OF the COE Breeders I have been in contact with, never has one said to me "they are akc and come from International Grand Champion Bloodlines"

Please do more research before you set your heart on this litter.
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  #3  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:06 AM
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Post Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

I would run from this "breeder". This is what BYB's (backyard breeders) use to sound like they are breeding quality. You can look at any pedigree and find Champions a couple of generations back.

The sire and the dam of your puppy should be Champions, and be titled in some sort of obedience or work. If the breeder does nothing with their own dogs but breed ,it's a classic example of a BYB.

Do some reading...for a few more hundred dollars, you can buy a puppy from a COE breeder, that titles their own dogs, and has all of the health certs (hips,elbows,eyes, heart)...and has the paperwork to prove it. A breeder that will be there for the lifetime of the pup.
Don't line the pockets of a BYB that will go on to produce more puppies that eventually end up in rescue or shelters.

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  #4  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:24 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

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Originally Posted by brunie's mom View Post
The sire and the dam of your puppy should be Champions,
I disagree with this statement and see it parroted by so many on this forum constantly. I have never owned a dog from CH parents, and don't plan to. I have no value for an AKC CH. I am happy when my friend's dogs do well in the breed ring, and truly share in their joy.

HOWEVER, an AKC CH is a guarantee of nothing. It is a title. It is NOT a requirement for breeding and there's no more reason to say "the sire and dam of your puppy should be Champions" than to say "the sire and dam of your puppy should have their ZTP, and one should be SchH titled" or "the sire and dam of your puppy need to have their CT."

What titles one values is a very individual thing. The correct statement should be "the sire and dam of your puppy should have no disqualifying faults, and the breeder should be able to discuss their conformation pluses/minuses with you." Preferably, a breeder should have had the dog evaluated for conformation and be able to show critiques or show ribbons to prove such.

PLEASE stop parroting this phrase, it's so pointless.
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  #5  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:24 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

Thanks for the responses so far. As for the breeder he actually states the term "International grand champion bloodlines" on his website which he updates every Friday with the photos of any pups that are spoken for while awaiting there 8-10 weeks to be joined with there new owners. He has invited me to his home where both parents are there pets. All the puppies are socialized by his family and raised in there home He seems to be genuine but you know..lol. Anyway, just wondered if that term champion bloodline meant any significance. I will ask him for all the health records on the parents. Anything else I should do to protect myself? Thanks.
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2012, 07:32 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

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Originally Posted by BostonRott View Post
Preferably, a breeder should have had the dog evaluated for conformation and be able to show critiques or show ribbons to prove such.
I like this phrase as far as one to use to indicate that having a sire and dam's conformation evaluated is important.
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  #7  
Old 03-15-2012, 08:52 AM
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Post Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonRott View Post
I disagree with this statement and see it parroted by so many on this forum constantly. I have never owned a dog from CH parents, and don't plan to. I have no value for an AKC CH. I am happy when my friend's dogs do well in the breed ring, and truly share in their joy.

HOWEVER, an AKC CH is a guarantee of nothing. It is a title. It is NOT a requirement for breeding and there's no more reason to say "the sire and dam of your puppy should be Champions" than to say "the sire and dam of your puppy should have their ZTP, and one should be SchH titled" or "the sire and dam of your puppy need to have their CT."

What titles one values is a very individual thing. The correct statement should be "the sire and dam of your puppy should have no disqualifying faults, and the breeder should be able to discuss their conformation pluses/minuses with you." Preferably, a breeder should have had the dog evaluated for conformation and be able to show critiques or show ribbons to prove such.

PLEASE stop parroting this phrase, it's so pointless.
I'm just trying to show the OP that Champion bloodlines is the way BYB's try to impress uneducated buyers.

I do think that anyone that is breeding their dogs should do something with them...to prove that their worthy of being bred...not just having a uterus and penis.

BYB's don't have show critiques.
Read the other thread started by the OP...before you start preaching to the choir.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:36 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

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Originally Posted by brunie's mom View Post
I'm just trying to show the OP that Champion bloodlines is the way BYB's try to impress uneducated buyers.
You said the parents should have their CH. I see that statement over and over on this forum. It's not a valid statement. Breeding pairs DON'T have to have their CH. It's not a guarantee of correct structure. It does NOT mean the parents will make better puppies. And it does NOT guarantee that the puppies produced will fit a particular person's desires.

I'm just trying to point out that this statement is regurgitated ad nauseum on this forum, and I don't think people are really understanding what they're saying. A CH is NOT a requirement for breeding, nor does it guarantee anything. As such, there's no reason to make this statement, and you're not the only one who says this. There are plenty of threads which talk about what various titles are, and how to choose a good breeder/litter.

Pointing out the false nature of 'international champion bloodlines' is one thing. Stating that a breeding pair should have it's CH's is another.
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2012, 10:01 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

I have to agree with Gretchen, a conformation title is not necessarily a meaningful title - in most breeds this just means that the dog likely doesn't have any serious faults and that the owner had enough time and money to show the dog until it finished - I have seen plenty of conformation champions who were far from good examples of their breed and politics in the show ring are distressingly common. I, personally, put far more importance on temperament and suitable working ability as well as health testing, I can evaluate conformation myself. There was a recent discussion about how "champion bloodlines" is a catchphrase used by bad breeders, EVERY purebred dog has champions somewhere in its pedigree, and no ethical breeder would use this phrase (unless they were referring to a specific dog, in which case they would say "so and so daughter" or whatever). Also, $700 seems suspiciously cheap - if I sold my puppies (Nottweilers) for that price, I would be basically paying people to take my puppies, ethical breeding is expensive, and it costs more than that just to break even in many breeds.
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2012, 10:04 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

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Originally Posted by Browns63363 View Post
...breeder states that they are akc and come from International Grand Champion Bloodlines.
So ask to see the pedigree.....if his statements are true - he should whip out that pedigree with 'pride'.....just keep in mind - AKC is only a registering entity - they would no more know your pup and his/her parents than the man in the moon.....AKC registers puppy mill puppies by the hundreds of thousands each year - and per direct communication to me - they honestly could care less about 'numbers' being produced....

And that 'International Champion Bloodlines' is only significant/important and should have any 'weight' for you and your decision - if that's what YOU are looking for in a puppy.....

These days - those important health screenings and results (and not just sire/dam) should weigh HEAVILY in anyone's decision to purchase a puppy from a 'breeder'....of any kind....
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:33 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

This is where I wish that our RED FLAG thread was a sticky! It would help the unsuspected get a general sense of understanding BYB vs COE.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:10 AM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

I hope nobody minds me posting on this subject. I have to agree that CH is really a pretty useless selling point or breeding point for that matter. MANY people show their dogs in the German style of shows and although IT IS A TRUER TEST of a dogs conformation, temperament, and condition .... AKC could care less. Sooooo many AKC Champions wouldn't recieve a V ( excellent ) rating in a German style show for a number of reasons. Teeth - something as simple as teeth will DQ many AKC Champions from a German style ring because many of them are missing AT LEAST ONE tooth and many of them are missing more. In a German style show if your dog is missing one single tooth, you can take your dog back home or to the nearest AKC show LOL.

A breeder who shows in the German style venue would never be able to tell you the parents are Champions because there is no CH available to them. That in NO WAY means that the dogs are of poor quality, it just means that the dogs are not shown in the AKC show venue to judges who most of the time have no clue and wouldn't know a real Rottweiler if one bit them.


There is a lot more to buying a puppy than worrying about parents who are advertised as Champions. Your first concern SHOULD be health and temperament. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. A ugly healthy puppy can still be a perfect pet and one breeders ugly puppy could be your ideal dog.

One last thing - If you call a breeder and you have more questions than they do .... reconsider
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  #13  
Old 03-15-2012, 03:03 PM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Browns63363 View Post
Thanks for the responses so far. As for the breeder he actually states the term "International grand champion bloodlines" on his website which he updates every Friday with the photos of any pups that are spoken for while awaiting there 8-10 weeks to be joined with there new owners. He has invited me to his home where both parents are there pets. All the puppies are socialized by his family and raised in there home He seems to be genuine but you know..lol. Anyway, just wondered if that term champion bloodline meant any significance. I will ask him for all the health records on the parents. Anything else I should do to protect myself? Thanks.
Did you check out the parents on the OFFA site yet ?
You can name the parents on this site if you want an opinion on them - you cannot name the breeder though.
On the face of it, I agree with the posters who are inclined to think "International grand champion bloodlines" actually means, the parents themselves have done nothing worth mentioning in any area to prove themselves worthy of being bred.
I doubt there's a Rottie out there, who, if you were to search their pedigree far back enough, didn't have Champions somewhere.
As far as I'm aware there is no such title as International Grand Champion anyway.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:11 PM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

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Originally Posted by toobad View Post
I hope nobody minds me posting on this subject. I have to agree that CH is really a pretty useless selling point or breeding point for that matter. MANY people show their dogs in the German style of shows and although IT IS A TRUER TEST of a dogs conformation, temperament, and condition .... AKC could care less. Sooooo many AKC Champions wouldn't recieve a V ( excellent ) rating in a German style show for a number of reasons. Teeth - something as simple as teeth will DQ many AKC Champions from a German style ring because many of them are missing AT LEAST ONE tooth and many of them are missing more. In a German style show if your dog is missing one single tooth, you can take your dog back home or to the nearest AKC show LOL.

A breeder who shows in the German style venue would never be able to tell you the parents are Champions because there is no CH available to them. That in NO WAY means that the dogs are of poor quality, it just means that the dogs are not shown in the AKC show venue to judges who most of the time have no clue and wouldn't know a real Rottweiler if one bit them.


There is a lot more to buying a puppy than worrying about parents who are advertised as Champions. Your first concern SHOULD be health and temperament. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. A ugly healthy puppy can still be a perfect pet and one breeders ugly puppy could be your ideal dog.

One last thing - If you call a breeder and you have more questions than they do .... reconsider
This is why I plan to show my pup in both AKC and Sieger shows.

The 2nd bold sentence in your quote is OH SO TRUE!!!!!
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:16 PM
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Re: International Grand Champion Bloodlines?

Browns63363, if you spent one hour doing a careful, thoughtful read thru the postings in Breeding, noting the hallmarks and characteristics of top flight breeders and then assess how the breeder who states that "...they are akc and come from International Grand Champion Bloodlines..." stacks up, you will know all you need to know about that particular breeder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Browns63363
... What significance if any does [International Grand Champion Bloodlines] have...
It's significance lies in the phrase's ability to separate the naive and impressionable from his or her money--which is generally a significant amount.
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