Day 2: some rough play, aggression

[motopokep]

Need quick advice. 10 week old male pup, yesterday went fine, today he's a bit more acclimated, running around, while i was sitting supervising, he started to play a bit rough with my 3-year old son, opening his mouth and showing teeth and trying to nip my son at the knees as my son was evading him so as not to give the pup my son's toy. Right away I stopped the "playing", told my son to step aside, and the pup ran into another room to try to bite at the X-mas tree and carpet. I've always "shoo-ed" him away by words and directing him away with my hands, and it was no problem until right now, he started growling at me and showing teeth, would run away to nip at another part of the carpet, I would come by and try to move him, and he would again growl and show teeth, so I went to get the leash to put on him, which he didn't mind until now, he would not let me put the leash on him, he would catch it with his mouth and chew on it, and when I finally got it around his neck, he started to growl. I got it on him, held him in the sit position, telling him in a strong voice "sit", I would not pet him or say nice words to calm him down, as I know that only reinforced the bad behaviour, he would think he did something right.

I held him for 3-4 mins in the sit position, holding the leash with my hand, until he calmed down, and I let him go, he's laying couple feet away from me right now, on his side, taking a nap.

I think he got a bit overexcited. When I picked him up from the breeder's yesterday, she told me if he gets aggressive, to grab his neck, lay him on his side, and hold him in this submissive position until he stops growling. I didn't do it this time, I held him in the sit position instead.

What do you do in this situation? This is my 1st dog, I've read literature, talked to people prior to getting a rottie, everyone says different things, the books say walk away (problem, he would know he dominated), people say to hold him down, or pick him up, say "no" in a mean voice.

These are the critical stages where I have to let him know who's the boss.

[frontierrots]

he's a CLUELESS baby

Read through the puppy aggression / biting section here and also pickup a copy of Ian Dunbar's book "After you get your puppy"

Your pup sounds very sound and normal to me

three hints

tire him out

redirect him instead of being a dominating bully

and crate him for time outs when he gets too crazed

[motopokep]

Thanx, I'll get that book, I've read other posts on the forum, in the meantime, I would really appreciate some specific advice what to do right now, today, this minute, if he starts growling again (he's sleeping right now). Should I follow my breeder's advice and hold him down by force for as long as it takes for him to stop growling (I know that won't work when he's 120lbs)....or should I walk away (which means he won and he'll do it again and again), or should I bring a treat, give it to him and pet him (which means I'm reinforcing bad behavour)? , or should I bring a toy and start diverting his attention? Some people, pit and rott owners, have suggested to me (prior to when I got him), that you can take a light newspaper or soft slipper, and kinda softly hit him on the side of the muzzle...very lightly, not for physical pain, but to put him down, to disrespect him...

I donno... I kinda chose the middle ground and leashed him and held him.

[tburnettt]

I agree with frontierrots...
What he is doing is normal. It is up to you to tire him out and work with him. He is going to nip at your son and try to play ... he is a baby.
I do not agree with grabbing him by the scruff and holding him down. It does sound as though you need to tire him out and use the crate a lot !
Use a stern voice when he is doing something you do not want and reward when he is doing right. Training a Rott is LIFE LONG and you have your work cut out for you for the next few years.It is up to you to teach him. At this age he is NOT trying to bully you... he is playing and he is NOT showing his teeth to be "mean"... he is playing. He will use your son as a chew toy though, if you let him. Those little teeth are like razors right now!
You need to get him in training as soon as possible. I would not suggest "training by a book" esp if this is your first dog, let alone a Rottie.

Congratulations... you have just turned your world upside down, lol. Enjoy the ride, train him correctly and the rewards you get back will be the best.

[motopokep]

Hahaha, after reading many posts (the beast is tired out and sleeping in his crate, giving me time to read and write), I realized that this is competely normal and nothing to worry about. I also realized that I should not be rolling him over and doing the whole alpha male roll thing. I've also read before that a submissive dog will do it voluntarily. It's funny me and my son got into old dog movies lately and we're watching K-9 (Belushi , GSD), and there's a scene at a cafe where this lady is teaching Belushi about the "alpha male" thing, that you have to stare at the dog sometimes for an hour to make his turn his eyes away, displaying dominance. As my boy was squeeling in his crate and wanted to get out too soon (I'm teaching him slow and he's sat longer before), I came up to him, on a level a bit above his head, and stared him deep in his eyes, he stopped running around and sqeeling, and stared at me, half a minute later turned his eyes away, then looked again, I made a tiny quet growl and raised my lips to expose my teeth, and he backed off to the back of the crate, just a bit, and sat attentively. I fed him from my hand, had him drink, then we went outside, my son, my rottie and I, and after he did his thing, he wanted to go home, pulling toward the house. We didn't let him, we threw around the ball and he chased it, I would've stayed more, but it's like 25 degrees outside, he started shivering and sqeeling louder than usual, so we took him home, I had him stand for a minute before the closed door, then I opened it, held him for another minute, let my son go first, then I walked in, then I said "home" and allowed him to get in. I'm keeping the leash for the rest of the evening, as I'm taking him out again in an hour before bed.

What I'm reading here, about other's problems, about that guy who's 5 months old female bit his hands to blood up the elbows, or biting through the skin, my boy is nothing like this. All I can say is that my life definitely turned upside down since yesterday, I started drinking coffee, which I hate, just to stay awake. Tomorrow 1st day of work, I'm taking half a day so I'm back by 2pm to take care of my boy, as my wife's home with the kids, I don't want him growling at them in my absense.

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by motopokep

...me and my son got into old dog movies lately and we're watching K-9 (Belushi , GSD), and there's a scene at a cafe where this lady is teaching Belushi about the "alpha male" thing, that you have to stare at the dog sometimes for an hour to make his turn his eyes away, displaying dominance. As my boy was squeeling in his crate and wanted to get out too soon (I'm teaching him slow and he's sat longer before), I came up to him, on a level a bit above his head, and stared him deep in his eyes, he stopped running around and sqeeling, and stared at me, half a minute later turned his eyes away, then looked again, I made a tiny quet growl and raised my lips to expose my teeth, and he backed off to the back of the crate, just a bit, and sat attentively....

Instead of watching movies to pick up dog training tips your time would be better spent reading thru the postings here at RDN and enrolling yourself and your puppy into Puppy K classes.

Do you have a class picked out??

[motopokep]

Hey, u bustin' my .... :) I was just relaxing after a long day and sleepless night with my pup, as he was sleeping, I put the movie on for my son to get him to see what trained dogs are capable of, and I was sitting next, reading many posts on this forum, while as a coincidence I overheard the dominant stare tip in the movie that got my attention.

I picked up the dog Saturday afternoon, the vet's office opening up in couple minutes, I'll call to schedule an appointment, and right after I'm calling the training school to sign him up.

[shimmer]

you stated that you will take half a day off since you don't want the puppy growling at your wife and kids. Might I make a suggestion, aside from getting your pup in class, which both of you will need have your wife walk the pup so that he will obey her also. Both of you are the leaders and he will have to learn this. Which part of Chicago do you live in North south etc? There are so many good dog training places. Also watch out for the land shark( pup going for your feet, legs). A tired puppy is a wonderful puppy. Enjoy this for now it doesn't last long and then they are off to something new for you to laugh or pull your hair out.

shimmer

[motopokep]

I'm up NW suburbs, there is some good school in Mundelein, I'll find their number tomorrow at the vet's.

I did take a lunch break and come home just now, my and kids walked him outside without me already, he did his business. He's still playing rough and growled at my wife this morning, but not at me. I had her feed him from hand, I boiled some turkey. She also made him sit and he listens little by little.

[Alura]

If the pup is home alone with the wife and kids i encourage you to keep him created while away (not sure if you said he was or not). The kids should not be left unattended with the dog (rottie or else) and it could easily become overwhelming for your wife.

PLEASE be sure the wife and kids are on board with the training.

[motopokep]

Yeah, I work and can be away as little as 3-4 hours and on busy days as much as 8-10 hours and rarely 12-13 hours without coming home. Someone's gotta take him potty. I never leave the kids alone with him, but wife is handling potty couple times today, and other times, he's crated. I'm going to tire out the hell out him today.

How's he supposed to go outside to the bathroom if he's crated all day? Once he's an adult, I know he'll go twice a day so that won't be a problem, I'll take him early morning and late at night. I'm self employed and my schedule allows me to work from home half the time, but sometimes I'm out in the field. But I'll do my best to be home as much as possible, especially during the puppy stage. If I'm away for a long time, wife will feed him and take him out. What's wrong with that? Women own and handle male rottweilers also.


Thanx.

[NikoJ]

You are right many women own and handle rotties, I am one of those women. I think it is very important that your wife become used to handling the puppy as well as yourself. I am bad about stepping in and correcting issues when my hubby is playing with our pup. I had to train my self to allow him to feed, give treats, commands, etc.

It was actually easier for me to walk out of the room and let my hubby proceed, because if I remained my pup would look over at me and decide what he should do. Don't let your pup think he ranks ahead of the humans in the house.

When my pup was younger he often growled and I quickly animated a toy in front of his face. This distraction works most of the time. Have your wife carry a toy in her back pocket, something the pup can sink his teeth into.

You should also be working in some basic commands at this time. Nothing makes my pup sit up and take notice faster than treat time! Work on getting him to look at you when you call his name and give him a treat. Sitting and getting a treat... Down and getting a treat... walking nicely on his leash and getting a treat. etc.

Remember lots of praise... giving him something to focus on via commands helps to tire him out as well as the games of fetch and the walks.

One more thought: playing a game of recall with your pup. My husband and I would each have a handful of treats and take turns calling the puppy back and forth between us. Niko knew he would get a treat at each end if he came when called. We gradually lengthened the distance between us until we were at far ends of the house or yard. He still loves this game because he gets treats and praise from both of us.

[Alura]

I did not mean to imply the wife couldn't handle it. It just sounded like you are taking the lead and I was worried she may be overwhelmed keeping up with pup AND the kids!

By keeping the little one in the crate when 100% attention is not possible allows her (and everybody) the freedom to go to him when time can be dedicated to play and potty.

[motopokep]

Great advice, I'm doing lots of fetch outside, he loves the big volleyball more than little tennis ball, and I'll try recall with my wife and then each of the sons tonight. Good idea.

[shake'm]

Originally Posted by frontierrots

he's a CLUELESS baby

Read through the puppy aggression / biting section here and also pickup a copy of Ian Dunbar's book "After you get your puppy"

Your pup sounds very sound and normal to me

three hints

tire him out

redirect him instead of being a dominating bully

and crate him for time outs when he gets too crazed

The kind of load of crap that gets stronger than average dogs put down before they're a year old.

motopokep, A correction is in order for your pup, bite inhibition training should start immediately. If you don't know how to make a correction pay a professional to show you.