still worried about food aggressiveness

[cindyp]

my sweet boy has become aggressive about food and treats .I have 2 small older dogs they are not get fed together we have completed training classes I've tried every thing I can think of .he always seems to be staving and we went to the vet and he's healthy he is almost 5 months old and is 60 pounds our vet says he's not fat he is just a big boy .no worms or anything abnormal.we have practiced the leave it and the give but when he's hungry he is a differant puppy. anyone else ever experiance something like this? thax

[bliss7373]

Food aggression/resource guarding is a fairly common problem. While it can take some time to resolve, the good news is that it's something that can be worked on!

The root of the behavior has nothing to do with hunger - it is based on the dog believing that he needs to guard his food from people or other animals. The key to resolving this behavior is helping him learn that he doesn't need to guard anything from you at all.

Your post was a little unclear, but I'm assuming that your puppy tries to guard his food from both you and your other dogs. I would take the following steps:

1. I think you're already feeding the dogs separately, which is great. Keep doing this. Make sure the puppy is gated into another room or in an area where the other dogs cannot even approach him as he's eating. If you feed him in a crate, gate the other dogs in a separate room.

Likewise, no humans should be pestering him while he eats. Instead, casually walk by him once or twice during a meal and toss a really yummy bit of food to him - cheese, a bit of chicken whatever. Don't look at him and don't acknowledge him if he growls. You want to teach him that having you approach while he eats results in good things happening. When he starts to look eager and wags his tail when you stroll his way during mealtime, you're making progress. This will take time and is something you may want to keep up, though you can scale it back after a time. You always want your dog happy to have you approach his meal bowl.

2. Do not place him in situations where he needs to guard high value items from you or other dogs. Don't leave his favorite toys lying about, don't feed treats to all of them at once, etc. If he gets a bone, give it to him in his crate, keep the other dogs away, and let him enjoy it in peace. Use the same technique described above. Again, you're helping him learn that there is no reason to guard. You can eventually allow lower value items to be out and about. My dogs are older and I do NOT leave them loose while chewing on bones, etc.. In my mind, this is good dog management, period.

3. Keep working on "trade" with lower value items - less favorite toys, etc. Work your way up to higher value items. From your posts, it almost sounds like you're asking him to trade his meals to you - that is expecting too much right now. Take it slowly, don't do it at mealtime, and be patient.

I hope this helps! Good luck!

[cindyp]

many thanks and I wil start working on it right away.

[AceLuby]

What is your current process for mealtime? I use the NILIF approach and make my girl sit before every meal. I then place it in front of her and if she moves toward it I take it back up. I do this until she patiently waits for me to give her the go ahead while her food is right in front of her. I then sit or stand w/ her at every meal. Occasionally I will take her bowl from her and tell her to sit and wait again. This is just to show her that I am in control of the food, but if she is polite and nice she always gets it back. I've been working on this w/ treats as well.

Your dog needs to know that you are the source of everything and that you can end anything he is doing at any time. This includes food, walks, training, affection time, play time, fetch... while he's w/ you he must believe everything will be ok no matter the circumstances. Right now he feels he needs to guard the food from you which is a response of fear and anxiety.

[bliss7373]

AceLuby - I have no problems with asking a dog to sit and wait politely before it is fed, as part of the NILIF approach or otherwise. I do that myself.

But while I recognize that people have strong feelings and differing approaches to this problem, I would be concerned that the rest of the approach you describe --

I then place it in front of her and if she moves toward it I take it back up. .....Occasionally I will take her bowl from her and tell her to sit and wait again.

--- would only reinforce the dog's believe that the food does need to be guarded. From the dog's perspective, that just teaches the dog that humans do randomly steal meals, which then increases the desire to guard. I would certainly be p-o'd if someone walked up to me occasionally and stole my plate. You'd better believe I'd learn to keep an eye out for that person....and a good grip on my dinner knife.

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by cindyp

many thanks and I wil start working on it right away.

Jamie has given you good advice. One thing to note, is that you must stay in obedience classes....you have not finished with training yet. Keep him in classes till he is at least 2 years of age. One class finishes, you start another with him.
With this breed continuous classes are a must...and since you have a puppy that is full of himself, and still going to go through the punk stage....you may have to be doing classes for years with him...even if it's a repeat class.

Gina

[AceLuby]

From the dog's perspective, that just teaches the dog that humans do randomly steal meals, which then increases the desire to guard. I would certainly be p-o'd if someone walked up to me occasionally and stole my plate. You'd better believe I'd learn to keep an eye out for that person....and a good grip on my dinner knife.

That isn't the point of the exercise. The dog shouldn't think like that. The dog should trust you 100% that no matter what he will not go hungry and as a kind benevolent leader you will always provide guidance as to what to do next. The food bowl is not his, it is yours and you are allowing him to use it. You should be able to take a half eaten bowl of food and be done w/ dinner at any time. That is the whole point of the NILIF approach. Everything is yours and the dog must earn anything he wants. I'm just trying to clarify myself here because I think my point was missed.

[cindyp]

everytime he is fed I hold the bowl and ask him to wait. and everytime he takes 2 steps back and lays down then I set the bowl down for him. I've been wondering if my 2 lhasa apsos are where he is learning this aggression about his food or treats because they growl at him all the time. he is not showing aggression toward me its just the little old dogs they are 8 and 9 and arent really into playing.just a thought..

[spidey]

Everything is yours and the dog must earn anything he wants. I'm just trying to clarify myself here because I think my point was missed.

If you tell the dog he can eat after a sit, he has ALREADY earned the food. By taking it away you are teaching him that you are unreasonable and untrustworthy and that he SHOULD guard his food. I think you are misinterpreting NILIF by thinking that it's okay to take back food you have already given the dog permission to eat. This kind of thing is what causes food aggression in the first place. Please do not do this. NILIF is not "everything is mine", it is "you have to give me what I want to get what you want", it is an agreement you teach the dog, once the dog has fulfilled his side of the agreement (sitting when asked, for example), you must fulfill your side, which means leaving him the heck alone for the 5 minutes it takes him to eat once you've told him he can. Otherwise you are breaking the agreement, changing the rules and making it impossible for the dog to learn what the rules are, thereby setting him up for failure.

[AceLuby]

Everything I've read and have been taught has said that it is not only ok, but recommended that you show control over their food. Here are a few just by doing a simple google search:

First one
Second one
Third one

And there are plenty more. All suggest getting your pup used to you controlling their food.

It sounds like you are perceiving my suggestion as getting up in a growling dog's face and forcibly taking his food. That is not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that your dog should trust you enough that he will let you be the leader. Your dog is telling you to back away from 'his' food by growling. It isn't his food, you are the leader and it is your food that you are allowing him to eat. Call it what you want, but a dog that respects his leader 100% will not food guard or growl when people are around the food dish.

[spidey]

Your second and third links start off okay, and then become textbook methods for creating food aggression. The first one is the only somewhat reasonable one, and you'll notice it doesn't tell you to take food away after you've given it to the dog. I suggest you look at modern, science-based dog behavioural modification methods (including NILIF), none of which suggest taking food away after you've given it, unless you're trading. Hand-feeding is fine, tossing treats into the bowl is fine, trading is fine, giving food and then stealing it back is not.

Once you've given it to the dog, it IS his food. Being a leader is good, being a bully is not. It's a fine line between communicating with dogs in a way they understand, and pretending to BE a dog. I do not choose to have a confrontational relationship with my dogs, nor do I need to, because I establish a fair and reasonable relationship from the beginning. I am a benevolent leader and they trust me, I do not need to bully my dogs or break my agreements with them in order to have an appropriate relationship with my dogs, you can call that being a leader all you want, but that is not how a leader behaves.

[bliss7373]

Well said, spidey. Thank you for explaining that, I didn't do a very good job before and I apologize if that confused anyone.

AceLuby - None of us misunderstood your point. I understand that there is support for your approach out there and where the confusion lies. But then again- there is still support for the alpha roll, and we all know how antiquated it is! As spidey eloquently explained - it is all about when you exercise certain techniques and that you think about the relationship you want to achieve with your dog.

At the very simplest point - to me, this isn't a control or respect issue at all. At least not for the original poster. She needs to teach the dog there is no reason to guard, plain and simple. I do believe respect is important - but it needs to go both ways.