New rottweiler owner in need of help!

[moondog]

Originally Posted by Robenk

IMHO, I believe there were probably some major temperament issues brewing there, esp because the mom was so aggressive & you weren't allow to meet her!

Where did you get this? All I can find is "...and the mom we saw in her back yard behind a fence. All she really did was bark."

Since when does a dog barking from behind a fence constitute "so aggressive"? Every dog I've ever owned would bark an alert when behind a fence, and some of them were total marshmallows. Also, I don't see where the OP even asked to meet her...how does that translate into he wasn't allowed to meet her?

I'm not saying this dog was this or that, because I don't know, however, in the interests of accuracy I think you've made some assumptions that there is no evidence for.

[fostermom]

Wow!
First off, as others have said, these were not rotti problems, rather puppy problems. My son and his wife got a golden puppy and, when Riley was five or six months old, I started getting calls from him that Riley was growling at them or trying to bite them. At two, Riley is a great (somewhat hyper) dog....these are simplyPUPPY issues that have to be worked through. Most puppies growl and nip..that's how they "communicate" with their littermates..and they need training on acceptable means of interacting with us humans. And yes, puppies have different temperments. Some will go belly up when unsure about anything, and others will play tough guy. Nothing wrong with either type.

I foster rotts and do so because I have found them to be wonderfully stable, calm dogs (who have unilaterally been great with kids BTW) so please don't indulge in breed bashing about how they're not good with kids and why didn't people tell you that. Yes, they tend to be "stronger" personalities than some other breeds; yes, they will make decisions if you don't make it clear to them that YOU are making the decisions (and that isn't accomplished by uppercutting, alpha rolling, using chokes on puppies, or shaking a pup). It's done by TRAINING using primarily positive reinforcement and consistency. Did you praise your puppies when they got it right, reward them, so they understood when they "got it right"? Or did you feel training was punishing them for not understanding what you wanted? Over the past ten years or so, understanding how to work with a pup has evolved so much...much of what I'm hearing is really outdated and wrong. I will say that I believe each of these posters meant well...but they didn't look at what THEY were doing wrong...it was easier to blame (and ultimately get rid of) the pups. Hopefully they will be willing to learn from their mistakes with their new pups...and hopefully these rotti pups will ultimately find appropriate homes.

For food bowl issues, I wish the poster would have tried making be around the food bowl a good thing (dropping tasty treats whenever near the bowl). Alpha rolling and sticking your hand in the food bowl only convinces the pup it needs to guard it's most important resource (food) from you!

For toy guarding, I wish the poster would have worked on trading up...offering something the pup wanted more, and then giving back the original item.

I can't speak to the poster whose pup bit her child...wasn't there...didn't see it...but it would have been interesting to see all the dynamics...could the pup have been trying to grab at her sleeve, get something she was carrying..did she have food that he might have been trying to get? My guess would be this pup felt he was alpha to the child...and there are ways to train for that also.

It is not necessarily wrong to rehome a pup or dog that isn't suited for your home. No-one is bashing anyone for that. I fostered a ten month old working temperment rott that came to me pretty unrully and out of control. I don't doubt Zach would have been a disaster in the wrong home. But he absolutely blossomed with the correct handling and training and is now in a home doing advanced obedience work with him. Not every dog and every home are a good match. And truly, if (as it sounds the original OP did) the dog is evaluated by a competent trainer/behavioralist and it is recommended the dog be rehomed, then certainly that is best for all, including the pup.

I really hope that others who have joined this thread that have recommended harsh "training" techniques...or those who have opted for disposing of the pup rather than training...that they keep an open mind to trying more appropriate training methods on their new dogs. I'm really not bashing anyone...just urging them to understand that what they were doing wasn't working so to be open to being educated using other methods.

[dedlobster]

Not that this specifically applies Phoenix or any other dogs with behavioral issues mentioned in this thread, but I would urge people to consider health problems with the dog as a potential reason for aggressive behavior. My girl was about 4-5 months old when she started growling if I went to move her from wherever she was laying down. Fast forward one month later - severe hip dysplasia in both hips! No wonder she didn't like being messed with or roughhoused with! Now she's got a bionic hip on one side and her pain is oh-so-greatly relieved. Now no more growling. She even lets me pick her up like a 60lb wet noodle.

Just something to keep in mind.

[ODOG77]

ROBENK- thank you for clearing that up for me, I guess because we had to rehome our rottie, I felt as though we were being included in those comments. We really like this website, so maybe we will continue to read thru it. Thanks so much, will keep you posted on how the little one is doing.

[Robenk]

Originally Posted by moondog

Where did you get this? All I can find is "...and the mom we saw in her back yard behind a fence. All she really did was bark."

Since when does a dog barking from behind a fence constitute "so aggressive"? Every dog I've ever owned would bark an alert when behind a fence, and some of them were total marshmallows. Also, I don't see where the OP even asked to meet her...how does that translate into he wasn't allowed to meet her?

I'm not saying this dog was this or that, because I don't know, however, in the interests of accuracy I think you've made some assumptions that there is no evidence for.

OOPS! Sorry!!! I got this thread and another one confused! There was a similar thread where the folks got their pup from a BYB that were not allowed to meet the dam because she was too aggressive. My mistake!!!

I agree, moondog, that barking behind a fence doesn't=aggressive, I just got the 2 threads confused (not that this one got away from anyone or anything!)

[ODOG77]

Since we rehomed Phoenix, the question that still pops up in my mind, is having a one year old and a five year old to young to be trying to raise a baby rottie at the same time. Since the breed is strong willed, I wonder how many owners of rotties raised a crawling toddler and a five year at the same time. We asked ourselves if it was different circumstances, would he still be here. We visit our friends that own a rottie and he's great with our kids, but was not raised with kids in the house. So I'm curious to know if we didn't have kids at the time and we raised him to a young adult, would he have been any different with toddlers then? Would it be better to raise and train a baby rottie with out very young children in the house and just socialize them occasionally?

When we went to look at the puppies for the first time just to see them, which was at six weeks, We could understand that she was barking at us because we are intruding on her terrritory. Did I really want to go greet her after she just had puppies. At that point in time, she really didn't look like she wanted to be greeted by my family even after the owners told her to settle. Maybe that should have been our first clue, but isn't that what a lot of rotties do, protect. Of course the breeder said that the mothers temperment was good along with the father. Unfortuately with our inexperience, it caused us to make a poor judgement call. We've learn a great deal from this experience.

[moz205]

ODOG77, my first Rottie was 4 years old, intact and extremely aggressive with strangers and most other dogs. He was very territorial and was definitely not wired right. I had a son when he was around 4-4 1/2 yo. I was single when I first got him and he was very devoted to me. When I went to the hospital he gave my hubby a hard time even leaving the house for a walk. He wouldn't walk to the park or leave the property. I have to say, he was terrific with my son when he first came home which even I was surprised at. He would sleep alongside my sons crib at night (in my room) and if any visitors came, he kept an eye on them. My son and Rommel grew up and old together with no trouble at all. Of course, they weren't left alone together nor was my son allowed near him when he was eating. Rommel wouldn't even try to take any food off my son when he was running around the house with something in his hand. Funny enough he was also great with my young nieces and nephews. If he had enough of my son he would just walk off onto the porch which was "his space". This place was off limits to my son. We was with me for 13 years and although he was at times a lot of work, I wouldn't trade that in for anything though. Neither would my son.
When I look back sometimes I wonder how I handled such an aggressive dog without knowing what I do now. I don't think I would take those chances now. I was young and ignorant to what I was getting myself into. Some will say I was stupid (probably) but someone was watching over us as he was never aggressive with my son and never tried to harm him.

[Jaidann]

ODOG77 - When I got my first Rottie, my youngest was 4. So I can't speak to children younger than that and raising a rottie pup. However I know it has been done by a lot of people without issues.

I believe this is truly only just ONE aspect getting with a good, responsible breeder helps with a great deal. They literally know their pups inside and out and can point you to the ones ideal for your family situation, your knowledge and experience level. If they do not have one appropriate, they will not hesitate to tell you that either. For the responsible breeders, it's not about the money, the quick sale or anything else. It's about the pups they bring into this world.

I can see this is really bothering you and you are trying to understand. That is a GOOD thing. If you are truly interested in this breed, do a TON of research. Hang around here and read, ask questions. Yes, sometimes things get heated or someone says something that makes you go ... But *most* times those things are from people passionate about this breed and have a lot to offer in terms of knowledge. Learn as much as you can. Contact breeders, go to some shows just for fun. Don't be in a rush. Be 100% positive this is your breed of choice. When you are, then take the steps you need to take.

Hope this helps you some

[debbiej]

Hilda is a love with kids, she has always been gentle and I trust her completely. Boris is undersocialized and unpredictable with children, so sadly, he isn't allowed around them. I don't know how he'd be if my grandchildren lived in the same town and were around more. I've had other breeds of dogs I didn't trust around kids, not just boris.

[Robenk]

ODOG77, Our first "child" was Nero. We got him at 9 weeks & my son wasn't born until Nero was about 4. He had been around children some, but definitely not a lot. Nero LOVED both of my kids and every other neighborhood kid around! He followed me the entire time I was pregnant (he knew before I did!!!) and then slept under the newborn's crib!!! He alerted me when my DD was 18 mo and eating rocks!!!

I would not hesitate to have a rottie with kids--supervised of course! My only concern, for myself, is that a rottie pup is a lot of work! They're SMART (see some of the recent posts!), need training of course, and test boundaries more so than any other breed I've had the priviledge to own or know! It's not that they're mean, or aggressive or negative in any particular way, they're just plain SMART!! Carley, my 9 mo rottie, makes my brain hurt! And, both of my kids made my brain hurt when they were toddlers & preschoolers!!!(A totally different story that belongs on a different board!! Let's just say at 2, there wasn't a lock or device made that could keep my son in the house or out of trouble!)

For my family, I just can't imagine having Carley AND a 2 yr old that could pick a lock!!! It would be like having quadruplets that can pick locks!!!

SO, to answer your concern, in the AKC standard it says that rotties have a natural affection for children. I believe that is true and that socialization will ALWAYS be key....and that goes for ANY breed of dog!

[fostermom]

Some rescues/shelters will not adopt a puppy out to a family with young children. I prefer to foster adult dogs...although I did adopt a five month old and did foster a seven week old...both of which were quite well behaved (calm) given their ages and both of which I think could have gone to homes with small children. These dogs get large FAST...so you end up with a young pup that has the size and power to easily knock over/overwhelm a small child. And (again, I'm NOT a puppy person) unless there's a lot of effort put into teaching the pup that the kids are not littermates to be chewed/jumped on, I could easily see that they would not be a good match. This is NOT saying rotti's are not good with children....just that large puppies (ok, maybe small puppies too!) and small children may not be a good match unless a huge amount of effort is put into monitoring their interactions.
I've gotten calls from people who have purchased a rotti pup and six months later want to "get rid of the pup"...I'm told it's chewing on the kids/ knocking them over...again, NOT a temperment thing but a puppy thing.
My advice to someone wanting a rott who has young children is to look to rescue for an older, calmer dog who has a track record within the foster home of being good with children. ALL of my dogs have gone to homes with children...my last, a six year old 100 lb rotti/shep LOVES kids and I made a point of having him go to a home with children. He now has his very own little boy and is the unofficial mascot of a girls' softball team (11 yr olds).
I have grandchildren who my dogs only get to see occasionally as they live in MD....and my dogs behave very appropriately with them. But again, these are adult dogs.

[lacroixel]

Originally Posted by JoJo

This PUPPY IS NOT BEING AGGRESSIVE at 13 weeks! This puppy is BEING A PUPPY! Please OP, do not listen to hill0523, for they do not know what they are doing. They have been lucky so far. Their dog sounds like a very tolerant dog with a good temperament. Please do as I suggested, read ALL the stickys in this Puppy Forum and hillo523, you need to read ALL the stickys in the Behavior and Training Forums BEFORE someone gets hurt, meaning your children. They shouldn't be giving this dog any commands for they aren't old enough to even know what a command is!

The only thing they have correct is " These aren't alpha type tactics, they sound more like "making my dog submissive and breaking his spirit" tactics. There is no positive reinforcement being used whatsoever. Nothing fair in being a bully.

no need to put others down jojo, i understand that the techniques used are different than the ones you use but that is not a reason to bash on her/him. I do NOT tollerate aggression bitting/growling in my ouse no matter the age. it would not be tollerated in a pack and it will not be tollerated in my home. I do not believe that every situation in life is "possitive" so we must be fair and balenced with our dogs to make balanced animals.

[dedlobster]

Hey man....I agree that "If more people took the time to educate themselves about raising puppies and breed characteristics we would not have countless numbers of sad, lost, souls in shelters in every county in this country."

Totally. BUT, none of you were in mrsguglie's home. None of you were there to evaluate exactly how they tried to train or did not train their dog. The breeder was probably not a responsible breeder if "he said that Berlin is "just like her dad". He is only respectful to the guy and no one else. He's food aggressive and he is not very friendly at all." If a breeder is allowing their dog that they are breeding to engage in food agression, general unfriendliness, etc. - they shouldn't be breeding. There is nothing to say that this particular dog in this one instance was not wired right.

This isn't to say that the owners DID do everything they could, I'm just saying that none of us were there and making these kinds of judgments seem unfair to mrsguglie. You don't expect a dog to be born trained. Don't expect people to be born trained in dog training. This woman was brand new to the forum and instead of engaging in concerned dialogue you just lambasted her. People often don't ask questions because they are afraid of being denigrated rather than being given useful advice or concerned, polite, criticism. Way to perpetuate the problem.

[dedlobster]

Sorry, didn't realize that the mrsguglie post was three pages back. Hope I didn't get anyone mixed up on this mess of a thread.

[FilosFolks]

not only that but it's been dead over a week but feel free to read it entirely from front to back and it should all make sense