New rottweiler owner in need of help!

[moz205]

Whoa~ An upper cut is NOT acceptable training, no matter how "hard", a "shakedown" is also not acceptable training.
With your training experience and behavior experience, if it were 100 years worth, I'd never allow you within a mile of my dogs. Buddy is going for his CGC. I also have dealt with all temperments as well as other breeds.
As far as children reprimanding, I certainly wouldn't upper cut or shake him either, again no matter how easy. It's abusive for either.

[jrc87]

Oh wow, please no "upper cutting" of puppies. I am aghast at this advice, and I tend to lean more toward the sterner alpha training than the majority on this forum. I've seen police dogs and the like treated in this sort of manner, and have always raised my eyebrows at it, but imagined those "professionals" know more than I do about what it takes to make a good protection/police dog. Besides not liking this at ALL, I can't imagine this is EVER a good idea for a family dog. I've had my teeth clacked together when my mouth was ajar, and I have to tell you that it was painful. Ergh. :(

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

It is not cruel or inhumane to upper cut. I said not hard...

Proof positive that any old body can hang up a shingle and call themselves a dog trainer.

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

...I have a lot of experience with dogs of all temperments.... I have trained dogs and done behavior mod....

If the advice you gave above is representative, it appears it's about 20 years out of date, falling into the "crank and jerk" old school method of training. You learned one training method and have stuck to it. Clearly you haven't kept pace with changes in thinking brought about a deeper understanding of dog psychology.

A dog trainer who smacks a puppy. That's nasty.

[moondog]

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

In addition, Ann, I gave advice. I didn't slam these people. I didn't call them names. I gave advice to help.

The advice you gave them falls directly in line with the confrontational approach they had been using all along....and surprise, surprise, it failed. Because it doesn't WORK. I hate to break it to you, but bad advice is worse than no advice at all, so you may as well stop patting yourself on the back.

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

It is not cruel or inhumane to upper cut. I said not hard mind you (read the post). I described one they could use that was age appriate.

It doesn't matter the age if the PUPPY hasn't been raised properly and taught first.....and if it had, this problem wouldn't have developed at all.

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

Do you know much about training dogs? Are you a dog trainer? Do you raise your own kids without punishment for serious offensive behaviors? Would it be wise not to?

What's with this attack on Anne? What I can say is that Anne has trained with the BEST, so I would cut her some slack if I was you and while you're at it, dump the arrogance.

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

Do you raise your own kids without punishment for serious offensive behaviors? Would it be wise not to?

And this is the way YOU do it? How does a child or a puppy distinguish a "serious offense" if they HAVE NEVER BE TAUGHT what the correct behavior is? I hope you're spayed.

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

The pup had behavioral problems (temperment flaws).

Oh, really? When she was about 9 weeks she started showing signs of aggression. She continues to challenge us in every way. When we feed her we would pet her and she immediatly growls. We did put her on her side and told her "No" and she was fine as we continued to pet her while she ate. But, we cannot let our kids pet her while she's eating or chewing a bone unless we supervise because she will give them a look, maybe growl and if they don't stop then she tries to snap at them Who has the temperament flaw in this scenario - the puppy who rightly believes her food is in danger from these invaders or the idiots who think that it's perfectly fine to allow unsupervised children to harass a dog while eating or chewing a bone and then physically punish the dog for being correct in her assessment? This is not a temperament flaw on the puppy's part, it's an approach to dog training that is archaic, inappropriate, and GEE....it doesn't work, either! Rottweilers are not dummies......they do possess a sense of fairness and will object to unfair treatment - which this most definitely is. Hence the puppy's reaction to it. Instead of using a "change the puppy" approach to dog training, these people needed to recognize their own inability and lack of knowledge and work on changing their approach to dog training. Had they done that, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the puppy would have understood the lesson and the problem would not have occurred.

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

I have a lot of experience with dogs of all temperments so don't judge my experience with how long I've been a member in this forum. I have trained dogs and done behavior mod. I have saved dogs from going to the pound or being 'replaced' using my training experience that is used with love for the dog and the desire for them to live happily with their family.

Congratulations. I'm not assessing your skills on how long you've been here, I'm assessing it on the solutions you offer. So far it stinks. I'd like to know what your experience is with Rottweilers? Any Rottweiler puppy worth its salt is full of spunk, vigor, and feigned ferociousness as a baby. Working against them (as in mrsguglie's and your approach) tends to wind them up and worsen undesirable behaviors, working with them (as in redirection and positive reinforcement) helps them settle and understand what is expected and most definitely improves it.

Originally Posted by mamakimpossible

Have you ever really studied dog behavior within a pack or between a mother and her pups? Corrections given by the older (higher) dogs in the pack don't look kind to humans. Have you ever seen a bitch give a young pup a shakedown? However the puppies learn and aren't harmed or abused. Dogs are animals and they don't go by the same language we have by far.

I know you are going to say we aren't dogs.....but our dogs are animals first and we have to teach them and communicate with them on their canine level in order to bring about desirable behavior.

You got one thing right....we're not dogs. Our dogs know we're not dogs. Our goal is not to replicate a pack of dogs, it's to teach our dogs how to live peacefully in the human world we bring them into. Trust is the first best tool we can employ, and you certainly won't get it by giving a puppy an upper cut, for god's sake.

So, mama, we can all see where you are coming from.

[blondieluv]

I think it is rediculous that some of you are putting down this person that was seeking help. They obviously tried everything...even had a trainer come to their home. Your childs safety COMES FIRST!!!!!! I have a 6 month old rottie puppy as well that I paid $3000 for and it has been in obedience/puppy classes for two months, walked daily, and has never been left home alone during the day once, and he just bit our 7 year old daughter and broke skin bad (without warning mind you while she was just walking by). He has been a resource guarder from the start...I have taught him drop it, leave it, come, sit, stay, everything you can think of...and he still refuses to play with his toys with anyone but us. He has been moody and unpredictable since we brought him home at 8 weeks old. There are some great Rottweilers out there, but the more I read the threads on here, the more similarities I see about "rotties" when they are younger. I have grown up around and worked with hunting dogs my entire life, and children could lay on them, over them, throw toys to them, without having to worry that they'de have a "temper tantrum" and break the skin. Yes - dogs are animals, and no matter the breed there is always a chance of getting bitten...but my Rottie puppy has been overly dominant and sometimes just downright mean since we brought him home. Because of my experience and devastation of now making the decision to have to sell my puppy as well, I will not buy another Rott until there are no longer small children living in my home. Every breed has a trait...huskies dig and like to run...Labs are hyper maniacs... Deutsch hounds are known to piddle...and the more Rottweiler owners I talk to...the more I hear that Rotties like to dominate and are possesive. I wish the breeder I bought my puppy from would have described the issues that can arise with Rotts such as severe biting and resource guarding since he knew we had a small child in our home. Rotts are amazing animals...but they are not for everyone...and that doesn't mean that that person is doing ANYTHING WRONG!!!!

My puppy is absolutely gorgeous and like my baby...I do not have any issues with him...just our daughter and his possession of his toys with other people. It breaks my heart to have to get rid of him...but again...our daughters safety comes first. If you live in Illinois and want a loving 6 month old Rott (for a home without children)...please let me know!

[moondog]

Originally Posted by blondieluv

...I have grown up around and worked with hunting dogs my entire life, and children could lay on them, over them, throw toys to them, without having to worry that they'de have a "temper tantrum" and break the skin....

Because of my experience and devastation of now making the decision to have to sell my puppy as well, I will not buy another Rott until there are no longer small children living in my home....

I wish the breeder I bought my puppy from would have described the issues that can arise with Rotts such as severe biting and resource guarding since he knew we had a small child in our home....

Rotts are amazing animals...but they are not for everyone...and that doesn't mean that that person is doing ANYTHING WRONG!!!!

My puppy is absolutely gorgeous and like my baby...I do not have any issues with him...just our daughter and his possession of his toys with other people. It breaks my heart to have to get rid of him...but again...our daughters safety comes first. If you live in Illinois and want a loving 6 month old Rott (for a home without children)...please let me know!

Oh heavens.....anyone else want to dump their puppy?

Of course errors were made - again, if there were no errors we wouldn't be having this discussion, and I find it flabbergasting that the puppies are the ones being blamed for the mess. Breeders do need to be much more careful whose hands they put these wonderful dogs in.

You're darn right Rottweilers aren't for everyone - if you want your kids to crawl all over the dog, if you want your kids to harass the dog while he's eating and don't think supervision should be necessary, if you think you should just be able to tell the dog to shut up and have it retreat to its corner, if you think a life of leisure in the yard is what a dog needs, then DON'T GET A ROTTWEILER. Owners like this are bad for the dog and bad for the breed.

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by blondieluv

...I have a 6 month old rottie puppy as well that I paid $3000 for and it has been in obedience/puppy classes for two months, walked daily, and has never been left home alone during the day once, and he just bit our 7 year old daughter and broke skin bad (without warning mind you while she was just walking by)....If you live in Illinois and want a loving 6 month old Rott (for a home without children)...please let me know!

Did you get your Rottie puppy from a COE, responsible breeder?

If you did, the very first person you should contact is your puppy's breeder about taking your puppy back.

What did you know about Rotties when you bought your puppy? Each of the 154 breeds and varieties of dogs recognized by the AKC were bred by us to do a specific job. If you wanted a dog which your children could use as a pillow, you most certainly got the wrong breed. (And no dog should be subjected to being climbed on and manhandled by children.)

Rotties are a very old breed, originally bred by the Romans to herd cattle and sheep as their armies marched around Europe. The dogs did their job by force of character, determination, will, and a desire to get their own way. Unlike BCs who were bred to work hand in glove with their owner, Rotties are intelligent, independent thinkers.

Naive, poorly informed owners who get this breed w/o a thorough understanding of what their dog was originally bred to do do not understand the characterisitcs they see in their Rottweiler. Rather than lay the blame where it belongs--at their doorstep--they blame their Rottweiler.

As it appears you're doing, alas!

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by blondieluv

I think it is rediculous that some of you are putting down this person that was seeking help. They obviously tried everything...even had a trainer come to their home. Your childs safety COMES FIRST!!!!!! I have a 6 month old rottie puppy as well that I paid $3000 for and it has been in obedience/puppy classes for two months, walked daily, and has never been left home alone during the day once, and he just bit our 7 year old daughter and broke skin bad (without warning mind you while she was just walking by). He has been a resource guarder from the start...I have taught him drop it, leave it, come, sit, stay, everything you can think of...and he still refuses to play with his toys with anyone but us. He has been moody and unpredictable since we brought him home at 8 weeks old. There are some great Rottweilers out there, but the more I read the threads on here, the more similarities I see about "rotties" when they are younger. I have grown up around and worked with hunting dogs my entire life, and children could lay on them, over them, throw toys to them, without having to worry that they'de have a "temper tantrum" and break the skin. Yes - dogs are animals, and no matter the breed there is always a chance of getting bitten...but my Rottie puppy has been overly dominant and sometimes just downright mean since we brought him home. Because of my experience and devastation of now making the decision to have to sell my puppy as well, I will not buy another Rott until there are no longer small children living in my home. Every breed has a trait...huskies dig and like to run...Labs are hyper maniacs... Deutsch hounds are known to piddle...and the more Rottweiler owners I talk to...the more I hear that Rotties like to dominate and are possesive. I wish the breeder I bought my puppy from would have described the issues that can arise with Rotts such as severe biting and resource guarding since he knew we had a small child in our home. Rotts are amazing animals...but they are not for everyone...and that doesn't mean that that person is doing ANYTHING WRONG!!!!

My puppy is absolutely gorgeous and like my baby...I do not have any issues with him...just our daughter and his possession of his toys with other people. It breaks my heart to have to get rid of him...but again...our daughters safety comes first. If you live in Illinois and want a loving 6 month old Rott (for a home without children)...please let me know!

The orignal poster did get help here and was given advice. They did seek professional help...and because of inexperience and poor breeding of the puppy decided to give the puppy back.

The next person that jumped on board...did not even seek help...just treated their puppy roughly and got rid of it, then proceeded to get a too young puppy of another breed.

You must read this thread from the beginning.
It does sound to me like you did not do your homework with the breed. Your breeder should not have picked a male, dominant puppy for you and your family. Sounds like you got a bad choice for your family. This breed is not all dominant and bossy....but if you don't catch things early a puppy can get pushy...your inexperience handling a working breed is showing.

Also...if you had bought your puppy from a good breeder...it would be in your signed contract that you MUST give your puppy back to the breeder. You cannot be trying to sell your 6 month old puppy. Good breeders will always take their dogs back...at any time.
So you either bought from a lousy breeder ? or you are going to break the contract?

Gina

[blondieluv]

You are correct...I didn't realize we were talking about two different situations...I'm at work and was skimming the posts.

We always dealt with the same breeder while I was growing up so I didn't know exactly what to expect from a breeder. He had a great website, sounded legit, and a contract that said you had 48 hrs to get the dog vet checked and I thought that was typical. He does not have any interest in helping me rehome the puppy which I am upset about and from talking to a few trainers have been educated to now know that a reputable breeder has in their contract that you must offer the dog to them first. They also have in their contract that you must spay/neuter your puppy within the first year...which his did not. My puppy has been neutered. So he is not standing behind his dogs...which is very upsetting.

Secondly...I do not believe that people should let children bother dogs while they are eating or bother and hurt a dog in any way EVER. Our daughter is always supervised with our puppy. I read 7 Rottweiler books and researched the breed for 6 months before buying my puppy...I didn't find this forum until recently. The books and breeders I talked to raved about how Rottweiler puppies are a lot of work but that they are great with children as long as they are raised with them and socialized properly. But then I come on this forum and everyone seems to be having the same issues as me and all everyone says is "oh it is typical puppy behavior"...yeah...for a ROTTWEILER maybe! I want to know how many of you have experience with other breeds because there are so many other working dog breeds that are much more tolerant and kid friendly. Again...not only have I been around labs my whole life but my friend owns three German Sherpherd Therapy Dogs and her new puppy that is 6 months old absolutely LOVES children and would never think of harming them. My Rottie puppy bit HARD and growled like a tazmanian devil...my daughter was just walking past him in the hallway on the way to the kitchen and he jumped up and bit her hand and she was bleeding
a lot immediately. It was very scary and something I hope none of you have to experience.

I talked to the training academy that trains police dogs and they do not feel that he is safe, even at 6 months, to be in a household with children and they experience that problem with Rottweilers often. I do think the Rottweiler breed has great characteristics...but call a spade a spade...and admit that they aren't the best "kid friendly dog". Again...if I had Rottweiler owners that were honest and explained their "tempermental" attitude that they have when they are puppies (and until 2 years old I've been told) instead of saying "oh the breed has a bad rap...they are the best dogs"...I wouldn't be in this predicament. He isn't going to a shelter...I will find him a home that is suited for his temperament. And let me say, if you go on a Shiba Inu website...it always says that they have a low tolerance for children...if that is true for the Rottweiler breed...maybe owners should own up to the real temperament of the breed and less Rottweilers would be in shelters. To say that I haven't given this puppy the best care or training and to try to turn this around on the owners all of the time is nonsensical.

[meg8777]

The only comment I'm going to make is that my 2 rotties are GREAT with kids. All ages of kids. I firmly feel that they are a kid friendly breed contrary to many generalizations made about them.

To answer your question about other breeds some of us have owned: I've had several small yippy types, a pit bull mix, a lab, and a german shepherd. The rotties are my favorite of all those breeds though!

I did see a toy poodle bite the heck out of a 7 year old at a public street fair a week ago though. Think it'll make the papers?

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by blondieluv

You are correct...I didn't realize we were talking about two different situations...I'm at work and was skimming the posts.

We always dealt with the same breeder while I was growing up so I didn't know exactly what to expect from a breeder. He had a great website, sounded legit, and a contract that said you had 48 hrs to get the dog vet checked and I thought that was typical. He does not have any interest in helping me rehome the puppy which I am upset about and from talking to a few trainers have been educated to now know that a reputable breeder has in their contract that you must offer the dog to them first. They also have in their contract that you must spay/neuter your puppy within the first year...which his did not. My puppy has been neutered. So he is not standing behind his dogs...which is very upsetting.

Secondly...I do not believe that people should let children bother dogs while they are eating or bother and hurt a dog in any way EVER. Our daughter is always supervised with our puppy. I read 7 Rottweiler books and researched the breed for 6 months before buying my puppy...I didn't find this forum until recently. The books and breeders I talked to raved about how Rottweiler puppies are a lot of work but that they are great with children as long as they are raised with them and socialized properly. But then I come on this forum and everyone seems to be having the same issues as me and all everyone says is "oh it is typical puppy behavior"...yeah...for a ROTTWEILER maybe! I want to know how many of you have experience with other breeds because there are so many other working dog breeds that are much more tolerant and kid friendly. Again...not only have I been around labs my whole life but my friend owns three German Sherpherd Therapy Dogs and her new puppy that is 6 months old absolutely LOVES children and would never think of harming them. My Rottie puppy bit HARD and growled like a tazmanian devil...my daughter was just walking past him in the hallway on the way to the kitchen and he jumped up and bit her hand and she was bleeding
a lot immediately. It was very scary and something I hope none of you have to experience.

I talked to the training academy that trains police dogs and they do not feel that he is safe, even at 6 months, to be in a household with children and they experience that problem with Rottweilers often. I do think the Rottweiler breed has great characteristics...but call a spade a spade...and admit that they aren't the best "kid friendly dog". Again...if I had Rottweiler owners that were honest and explained their "tempermental" attitude that they have when they are puppies (and until 2 years old I've been told) instead of saying "oh the breed has a bad rap...they are the best dogs"...I wouldn't be in this predicament. He isn't going to a shelter...I will find him a home that is suited for his temperament. And let me say, if you go on a Shiba Inu website...it always says that they have a low tolerance for children...if that is true for the Rottweiler breed...maybe owners should own up to the real temperament of the breed and less Rottweilers would be in shelters. To say that I haven't given this puppy the best care or training and to try to turn this around on the owners all of the time is nonsensical.

You did not do your homework and really do not know anything about the breed. We have many people here that have young children and Rottweilers...and their families and puppies are doing great.' We have people that do therapy visits with their Rottweilers.

You made the mistake of not doing your homework, and buying from a lousy "breeder". Dogs with good temperaments,that are shown and tested to have good temperaments...have puppies with good temperaments. Please don't blame the breed because you bought a poorly bred puppy from a lousy breeder.

Rottweilers do make great family dogs...very loyal and protective of their family. I've had many other breeds, and I also board dogs for a living. There are poorly bred dogs with lousy temperaments of all breeds. I've been bit by Labs, by Goldens, German Shepherds, Huskies, small assorted mop tops....but that does not make these breeds vicious. It means these dogs were poorly bred and had little training.

You are right, Rottweilers are not for everyone...and I'm very glad they are.

Gina

[brutus'mother]

This thread has become very disturbing and sad. I am amazed at the willingness of some people to discard animals like an old pair of shoes.

blondieluv-your post stumps me.
Did you ever take this 6 month old PUPPY to a formal class? I, for one, would like to know what 7 Rottweiler books you read when researching this breed. Clearly, our breed is not for you-they require training and exercise with consistent leadership or they will take over. Maybe a different breed that will follow you around and not think for itself at all would be more fitting.
I have a 20 month old intact male that loving plays with nieces and nephews from 1-5 y/o. Would I ever leave them unattended? No! Just because you couldn't seem to handle normal puppy antics with your dgtr doesn't mean that rotts are not good with kids. Get over yourself!
As far as your defense of the poster suggesting an "uppercut" to be used with a puppy (or an adult dog for that matter) leaves me at a loss for words.

[Inga]

All I can say is "WOW!" I have had Rottweilers for over 29 years now and been an active rescue for this breed. Most of my dogs were rescued, many from really bad situations. Amazingly, they all managed to become wonderful dogs. All of the rough handling of puppies that I am reading about is down right scary. Why in the world would anyone treat a puppy as some of these people have said they did? Puppies are babies! I sure hope that people do not treat their babies so rough. :( I am sad to hear about all of the wrong choices people have made here. All of my personal Rottweilers have been wonderful with children of all ages as well and most of them worked as active Therapy dogs for many years. They are amazing dogs and need to be taught with love and patience NOT brute force and abuse.

[rottielover2004]

I have 2 rottweilers at home, and also a 4 1/2 year old daughter. Both dogs are great with her, but just like anything, she is never left unsupervised with them.
I think with formal training, and work, your 6 month old PUPPY would be great in the home with children.
But it will require work, puppies are not born knowing their limits, just like children they will test their boundaries.

[Nishasmom]

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

This thread has become very disturbing and sad. I am amazed at the willingness of some people to discard animals like an old pair of shoes.

Isn't it sad ...it breaks my heart to look at my dog who has everything and think there are so many other dogs just like her with nothing . You can enroll in a puppy class for less than $100...there is no excuse for not attending one IMO.