Evo vs. Orijen - Need input/experiences with

[gendursgrrl]

Hi, Y'all! Looking for some serious input here folks. :o) Evo vs. Orijen...

Gendur is now a hair over 11 months old and is currently on Wellness Super 5 Lamb adult. I have had nothing but loose stool issues with this guy since I switched him off the food sent home with me from the breeder, which was Redpaw (not a fan - of the food that is.) I finally have him to a point where he has solid stools (mostly) on Wellness, but only if I use the probiotic/enzyme/alphalfa supplement from All the Best Pet Care. He has one of those annoying "tender tummies" and if something upsets his system, he ends up with EAD (exploding bumhole disorder)!!!!! Believe me, it's not pretty and it's definately NOT "retreivable."

I ultimately will put him on a RAW diet, but not until he is 18-24 months, and I am sure he is done growing. That's my personal decision because I'm just too wary of possible skeletal and joint issues. That being said, I would like to move in that general direction with his kibble.

I have been doing massive research and have reached a cross-roads of sorts. I have decided that I want to put Gendur on either Evo Red Meat or Orijen LB. I would really, REALLY appreciate any, and all, responses regarding your experiences, likes, dislikes, knowledge of, and input on these 2 kibbles. Especially from you folks with tender-tummied pups like Gendur.

EVO
In a nutshell, I've read that there is the Ca:P (calcium:phosphorus) ratio issue with Evo in relation to puppies. My big question here is that I am wondering if he is now old enough to be on EVO without any risk to his growth plates. He is afterall on adult food as it is. He has done great with raw red meats that I have given him in the past, so that is a plus. He is a fairly lean dog, very energetic (when he does not have tummy issues,) so I will probably have to supplement fat with coconut oil, flax seed, or something like that, so I'm not really worried about that so much as I am about the Ca:P ratio issue.

Orijen - LB Puppy
So with Orijen LB Puppy, the Ca:P seems to be in order for puppies. Would this be beneficial to an older puppy of 11 months until I switch him to RAW, or would the adult formula be more suited for him at this age? I will say that I do worry about the biggest complaint seen with Orijen so far: loose stools. I am REALLY sick of loose stools! lol And I also wonder if the meat base containing so many fish products would be an issue for Gendur (lake whitefish, salmon meal, salmon and anchovy oils, salmon.) Evo only has herring oil. I mean seriously, I swear if you so much as threaten to give this puppy jack mackeral or tuna, WHAM!! SPEW CITY!! It really sucks because I've always fed jack as a supplement, kibble or raw. :o(

Evo or Orijen?
I'm sort of leaning towards Evo, because of the red meat base, but I'm unsure about the Ca:P and whether or not it would be an issue for my puppy. On the other hand, Orijen seems great, but there is the whole loose stool issue, and lets face it, folks, if the food is sprayed all over the yard, then there is not much "nutrient uptake" going on.

Thanks for reading yet another lonnnngg post and I'm really looking forward to your responses!!! :grin:

Jeannie

[bliss7373]

First, I'm sorry that you have to deal with the "tender tummy." One of my not-weilers has a mild case of IBD. He does well on a raw/kibble combo - but I will be adding a digestive enzyme/pro and prebiotic supplement to his meals forever. That's okay by me if it works.

At almost 11 months, I think you don't have as much to worry about with the calcium:phosphorous balance. In an ideal world, I'd keep that in mind until 18 months...but I don't see it as quite the same level of concern.

Honestly - when it comes to food, it's about what works for your dog. If you know Gendur is very sensitive to fish, I would not put him on Orijen. It's a great food and very popular but that doesn't make it right for everyone.

Aside from the calcium/phosphorous issue, my concern with EVO is that it is very rich. Especially the red meat line. If switching to Evo doesn't help - and I would give it at least 2 months - you might want to switch to one of the foods that are very simple in their ingredients, a little lower in protein and calories, etc. Maybe one of the Natural Balance allergy lines or the California Natural grain free food.

I hope it works!

[mjfish]

I'm sorry you're having a contant battle with the loose stools...I know the feeling. First, I have to ask...you mentioned that you would supplement the EVO or Orijen with extra fat from coconut oil or flax seed oil -- are you doing that with your current food? If so, I would say stop immediately, as that is what is probably causing the loose stools. Additionally, you will not need to supplement with the grainless foods because they do have a higher percentage of fat in them than other super-premiums w/grain.

I went through MANY of the super premiums until I landed on EVO. There were only a couple of foods that the Rottn Monster had firms stools on, and that the GSDx would eat. One was discontinued (the best formula that Royal Canin made, go figure), and the second one was Chicken Soup. However, the Rottn Monster started throwing that up after a while...it didn't have any probiotics in it back then (it does now).

Some things I discovered through all of this: If the food had plant oils as the main source of fat & omegas, the Rottn Monster's poop was runny. Actually, this makes sense as it is harder for dogs to digest plant-based oils vs. animal fats. So, I stick to foods that only have animal fats, which is usually Chicken Fat. As mentioned above, he eventually starts throwing up foods that don't have probiotics in them. I have tried a probios supplement...gives him loose stools...haven't tried any others.

EVO started being sold at a local store, and it was relatively inexpensive (I pay about $48 for 28lb bag) for the grainless food, so I thought, why not try it? Well, I am no less than thrilled with the results!! He has lost weight (about 5-10lbs which was needed), his energy level has gone way up, and he just looks better overall...I even think his coat has improved a bit too. Best part about it -- firm poop!! I have him on the Chicken formula because he poop was a little looser on the RM formula. To me, it seems the RM formula is harder for them to digest (I hear the rumbles of digestion from the GSDx after she eats, not so pronounced with Chicken formulas).

I would think EVO would be fine for your pup since most of his bone growth is done now (he will still continue to fill out over the next couple of years though). Keep in mind, you don't have to feed a lot with this food...my Rottn Monster only gets 2 & 1/3 cups total, split between 2 meals, which keeps his weight in the nice 105lb-110lb range. Because your guy is still a puppy, he will need a little more than that, but not a lot.

I have not fed Orijen at all, but if the one local store stopped selling EVO, I would go to another local store (a little farther away) and buy EVO or Orijen from there -- I am sold on the grainless food! More and more companies are coming out with grainless formulas for their lines, but I think that EVO and Orijen are still the best ones out there (and probably Timberwolf Organic's formula too) -- JMO, haven't tried any others, it's based stricktly on reading the ingredients.

If you are going to switch him to raw, why are you still looking for a kibble? As a backup plan or are you going to feed both? (Just curious)

[MikeT66]

At what age could you starting feeding EVO? Ryker is 8 months old and is currently on Canidae but the new formula is giving him the poops which the original did not. So much for new and improved. What is a good food to switch to? I was thinking about EVO Red Meat or Innova Adult (green bag) Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated......THANKS

[Zumie05]

I had a really tough time firming up my puppy's stool also. We tried Canidae (the original formula) and Evanger's with no success. Around 6 months of age I switched him to Evo and his poop immediately got tinier and firmer, but then I found out that the calcium to phosphorus ratio wasn't good for a growing pup so we ultimately landed with Orijen LBP.

I had at first suspected that my guy's tummy was sensitive to a particular meat like chicken, turkey, or lamb from the Canidae. When we switched to Evanger's which used duck and pheasant there was no difference in poop. Evo had all red meats so that sort of confirmed that the meats in the previous food caused his intolerance, but after trying Orijen and realizing that chicken is in it I finally realized that his tummy is just sensitive to grains! Rice, oatmeal, barely, all of it makes his poop mushy.

I would at least try the Orijen LBP to see if there are any improvements, and if there are then wait until 18 months to feed Evo. If there aren't any improvements on the Orijen, it probably wouldn't be too bad to feed Evo at 11 months, seeing as how the major growing is all finished up.

Good luck

[mjfish]

MikeT66 -- it all depends...if you want to go grainless, then I would try the Orijen puppy as your pup still has a little growing to do, although the majority of it is done, so it probably wouldn't hurt to go right to EVO. Otherwise, Innova Adult (green bag) is a good next choice...has basically the same meats & grains as Canidae (old formula anyway). I feed Innova (green) to my GSDx as she needs to gain weight and I want the carbs that the grains provide.

There is no magical number of months to wait before feeding EVO...you just want to wait until the majority of growing (bone-wise) is done, which is typically around 12 mos.

[gendursgrrl]

Thanks! This is a great start! I really appreciate all the feed back that you folks have!! :o)

mjfish: Thanks for such great detail! I do not currently supplement his diet with fats, so that is definately not part of the current issue. I actually was sort of keepin that idea on the back-burner because the fat and protiens in the newer diet are different.

BTW - I plan on putting Gendur on 100% RAW diet, but not for at least 9-13 months from now. :o) I want to get him on a better food because I just don't like what is going on with any of the foods I have tried thus far. I will not be doing 1/2 & 1/2 when I go to RAW though. All the way, baby!!

Zoomie05
I wasn't sure about the Evo chicken formula though. One of his problem may very well be the whole grains issue, however, when I put him on Chicken Soup, THAT was the worst results of all time! I likened it to when a dog drinks to much salt water!!

Bliss7373
I will ultimately have him on probiotic/enzyme supplement with his RAW diet, and I'm totally ok with that. And I agree, if it is fish that is his issue, Orijen may be the wrong way to go. But if it's the grains, then either might be ok. But Chicken Soup was similar to Orijen, but not in the same class, IMO.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about what you guys and gals have to say about Evo vs. Orijen. :o)

Jeannie

[jlhnokc]

I know you are comparing EVO to Orijen, but have you thought/or have access to Taste of the Wilde? I put mine on it and they are doing wonderful. Now, the calcium/Phos ratio is not 1:1, I think it's 2.1/1.4, but I think you would be ok with your pup being 11 months old. I think Jaycee was just over a year when I switched to it. Poops are great, coat is very shiny and it's a grain free food. I feed the pacific stream formula...

[gendursgrrl]

jlhnokc:

I actually did look at that line of food, however, I do not feel that it would fit my puppy's needs. Even though it is grain-free, it feels more like a lateral shift in quality to me. And that is over and above the Ca:P issue.

I really appreciate your input though!

Jeannie

[blisscodisco]

I am a huge Orijen cheerleader. My dogs 6 yo female (no digestive issues always has firm stools) and my 10 yo male (verrry sensative stomach, constant "smooshy" stools his whole life). I have used Orijen for about 8 mos now and cut out ALL treats except Lamb squares from Merrick, cooked chicken, raw hamburger. I also will feed EVO 95% canned food as a treat (a few spoonfuls). Doing this my old boy has finally had firm stools. Not always because I will feed him something that sets him off but most of the time. Also their coats are super shiny and silky.
I have not fed the kibble Evo (accept occasionally as training treats) only because they are doing so great on the Orijen I don't want to mess with a good thing. So I can only answer 3/4 of your question. YAY Orijen, and YAY Evo canned (make sure it is the 95% NOT the other).

[adam8065]

Olewo Carrots help with loose stools..even though my almost 5 month old puppy is on Orijen I feed her one tablespoon of Olewo carrots total with her food! It helps with Nutrition uptake and loose stools

[MikeT66]

adam8065 - what are Olewo Carrots and where do you get them?

[adam8065]

Originally Posted by MikeT66

adam8065 - what are Olewo Carrots and where do you get them?

They are concentrated carrots in pellet form. Basically you add one tablespoon to a cup of water and they expand. One tablespoon of Olewo will become 1/2 of a cup of moist ground carrots. Olewo Carrots help improve your dogs health by providing valuable vitamins, minerals and trace elements which contribute to a well balanced diet. Along with its high carotene content (an important pre-cursor to vitamin A), Olewo carrots also contain significant B-group vitamins. They also help:


* combat worms by means of volatile oils
* promote growth
* promote the formation of blood cells
* on the structure and the functional regulation of the skin and mucous membranes
* build up resistance to infections
* on metabolic regulation by the liver and thyroid gland


You can only purchase them online only because they are manufactured from Germany. Just type in Olewo Carrots in google and it will bring up like 10 different distributors.

It will also give your dog's coat a beautiful shine and make their pigmentation darker. And my Zoey licks her bowl clean when I add Olewo to her kibble!

[MikeT66]

Adam - How often do you feed the Olewo carrots? Is it a daily every meal thing or a few times a week?

[adam8065]

Originally Posted by MikeT66

Adam - How often do you feed the Olewo carrots? Is it a daily every meal thing or a few times a week?

I'm feeding Zoey twice a day. So I mix 1 and half teaspoon of olewo carrots with her kibble at each feeding; for a total of one tablespoon per day. I feed her Olewo everyday and I will probably feed it to her for the rest of her life; since they aren't expensive at all. (My breeder told me this is the only thing that he gives his all his dogs everyday and he has been breeding and showing Rottweilers for 25 years.)

Once the carrots expand I would recommend adding maybe another 1-2 cups of water to the kibble. The kibble will be watery but water is needed to help move the carrots thorough a dogs system and you won't have to worry about your dog becoming dehydrated too.