Feeding Raw: How to Know He's Eating the Raw Bone Correctly?

[Maxxx]

Originally Posted by AngelBunny

I understand and sympathize. When I first started feeing raw, I was afraid one of the dogs (we're feeding raw to three--our foster and two personal bitches) would choke or swallow something that would get stuck halfway down.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels/felt this way!

I'll pickup a chicken this Sat evening and give it to him and see what happens. That way, I'll have Sunday to deal with any tummy issues if necessary.

To those who have snow in the winter... do you feed your dogs inside all year round, bring them inside to eat in the winter, or keep them inside all year long?

[AngelBunny]

I fed kibble inside the house, but feed outside, year round. I love shoveling snow, so the areas in which the three dogs are fed are carefully shoveled.

The only thing I do differently in the winter is dump their food on the ground instead of feeding them their meals in their stainless steel bowls.

The dogs only ate one raw meal inside the house.

All it took for me to start feeding them outside was to see our foster pick up a 6” sardine and shake it before starting to chew. (As it turns out, Sailor often shakes his raw before starting to eat.)

[brutus'mother]

I feed trying to follow the raw prey model but it ends up being more of the "frankenprey model". I aim for lots of variety, parts and pieces from many different animals = Frankenprey.
I have been researching kibbles since I joined this site and eventually stumbled upon raw feeding. I hate to admit it but I didn't know squat about kibble. I read through the Nutrition and Grooming posts and before we brought Brutus home I went out and bought a bag of Canidae instead of the Beniful that I had planned to buy. Ugh!
From then the journey began, I read and researched information about kibble from as many sources as I could find. Anything related to large breed requirements I gobbled up and started a notebook.

My kids (16 and 18) had a blast making fun of me. Joked how I never cook dinner for them but the dog gets to eat like a king! And it was true. I analyzed eveything that went in his mouth. Training treats to kibble.

I ended up feeding Orijen LB Puppy formula while transitioning to raw. I knew my dog didn't NEED any grains and his digestive system wasn't capable of digesting them anyway. So, we went grainless while I did more studying!

It took me a while to build my knowledge and even then I was scared to death. I did make the switch and it has been the best thing for my dog.

Anywho...to answer the OP's question-Always feed larger. I know some rawfeeders that use wings, legs, backs, etc. Those small pieces scare me. I never feed a chicken part smaller than a quarter of a chicken. I buy whole chickens (4-6#'s each)when they go on sale. I invested in a pair of heavy duty poultry shears and I quarter the chicken. I have done the same thing with a turkey. I admit I use poultry for the bones because I am fortunate to live with an avid hunter and I have a huge stock of venision. But I also feed beef, pork, fish, and lamb. I would feed rabbit but my dgtr gets pretty pissy about that. She's had one for a pet for the last 6 years.

I started out measuring every meal on a kitchen scale. I now feed according to how he looks.

To answer moondog - absolutely. You must feed bones to get the calcium. Some people use whole eggs-though I'm not a big fan of that.
When I fed kibble I added cooked ground venison to it. But I would never suggest feeding an all ground meat diet. It takes away some of the advantages of feeding raw-no chewing=no work for the dog to eat and no benefit of the amazing teeth cleaning that eating raw meaty bones will do! But mostly because it is never going to balance out, not in a week or a month, ground meat simply does not contain what is needed in the diet to stand alone.

I feed Brutus in his crate. He cleans up wonderfully, never a drop of juice or blood left. I wipe his crate out with a vinegar/H20 mixture.

I do agree with Gina-there is some background learning to do before going raw. The sites angelbunny listed are some of my favorites and you can find other links from those sites.

I wish I had known more from the start with Brutus. I would have transitioned him to a raw diet as soon as I brought him home.

Sorry for the length, I just got back from vaca with no internet access. I missed RDN!

[Maxxx]

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

Some people use whole eggs-though I'm not a big fan of that.

Sorry for the length, I just got back from vaca with no internet access. I missed RDN!

Welcome back!

Why aren't you a fan of whole eggs? Is it because your dog doesn't like it or another reason? I read you're supposed to give them a raw egg with the shell to help supplement calcium. I'm thinking though... if you're feeding the 10% bone required, do you really need the egg?

Sorry for so many questions! I'm really trying to get it all together before I take the plunge

[brutus'mother]

I'm a firm believer in getting the majority of calcium from bones.

My reasoning is that the tearing of the meat/muscle and chewing the bones provides a great workout and provides the needed calcium. This is why I'm not a big fan of whole eggs used as a primary calcium source or pre made raw diets with ground bone. Not to mention, the premade raw diets are a toss up as to what type and quality of meat is used and can get expensive to feed a larger dog. That being said, there are lots of people feeding their pets pre-made raw with good results.

Eggs are great and Brutus would eat one with every meal not to mention it is hysterical to watch him crack a whole egg. I consider eggs a supplement and it's really the only supplement I use.

Ask lots of questions!!

I would strongly suggest reviewing the links that angelbunny posted. You will find a plethora of information. Extreme opinions abound, as with any other topic, so be prepared to determine what works best for you and your dog.

Good Luck!

[moondog]

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

I knew my dog didn't NEED any grains and his digestive system wasn't capable of digesting them anyway.

A dog may not NEED grains, but the only grains they aren't capable of digesting are RAW grains. Cooked grains are digestible - it's the cooking that begins the process of breaking down the carbohydrates, and while the digestibility does not come anywhere near the digestibility of eggs, for example, it's a fact that for some dogs a grain based diet is more tolerable than a meat based diet (I had one of those dogs). Also, if dogs weren't digesting the cooked and processed grains in crap dog foods, you'd never see an obese dog who eats them, would you? We'd be looking at a continent full of starvlings due to a lack of meat, when most dogs in North America are in fact overweight.

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

To answer moondog - absolutely. You must feed bones to get the calcium.

Actually, I didn't ask the question because I didn't know the answer....I asked the question of the person who thought a diet of ground meat might be better for her puppy....so she would ask herself that question and realize that she didn't know the answer........hopefully sparking the realization that there is work to be done BEFORE moving from a balanced commercial diet to a home-prepared raw or cooked diet.

[brutus'mother]

moondog, Atleast we agree that dogs do not NEED grains and their digestive systems are not capable of digesting raw grains. So, what they can digest are the grains in kibble that are cooked to the point that there are minimal to no valuable nutrients left but still contain those wonderful calories!

Which means the kibble makers are forced to add high amounts of sythetic vitamins and minerals to "supplement and balance".

I don't think there was any mention of a special needs diet. I am aware there are dogs that need a high carbohydrate/grain diet due to medical issues. This was not the topic of discussion as there are also dogs that don't tolerate any grains, you did not mention that though..?

As far as the comments on obese dogs, I disagree with you. Excess carbs are stored in the liver as glycogen and in the body as FAT. There are lots of dogs on crap kibble that are overweight. Do you think these dogs that are eating crap foods get any excercise? Usually when an owner is educated about diet and exercise a change in what is fed follows. I never said there were not A LOT of empty calories from the processed grains which will cause overweight dogs.

It was very clear to me that you indeed already knew the answer to your own question. I use that same questioning technique with my kids to encourage problem solving on their own. However, when someone is trying to learn about a specific topic and asks a point blank question I don't see a problem in providing the "why" and then allowing them to seek more information to back it up. I don't play games on this board. My answer was a direct answer to that question with a little of the "why" behind it.

It cracks me up that people are so brainwashed with the "balanced commercial diet" thing. I strongly believe owners should feed the best they can.
I also believe I am doing the best I can for my dog by feeding a species appropriate diet for a carnivore.

[SigTau66]

To answer the original question I'm not sure you need to be too worried about how he eats the bone. I've had my male swallow a whole chicken leg before with no issues on either end. I was giving him his dinner which that night consisted of about 5 chicken legs. I gave him the first one with the intention of putting the other 4 down on the ground for him. He took the first one out of my hand and swallowed it whole like it was a treat! Needless to say I sat the other 4 down and didn't try that again. Once they've been eating RMBs for a while I think they just intuitively know how to eat it. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Another question about where people feed during the year. I feed both my dogs outside all year round. Doesn't matter if it's 102 degrees with 100% humidity or 2 degrees with a -30 wind chill and 2 feet of snow they get their food outside. :)

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

...I also believe I am doing the best I can for my dog by feeding a species appropriate diet for a carnivore.

It took me a loong time and a boot from my vet, but in June 2007 I finally put our foster and two personal bitches on raw. For years I long believed raw is best for our canine companions, but I thought I didn't have time. I used to joke that when I retired, I'd feed raw.

I've come a long way in my canine nutrition education.

Back in 1984 when I got my first Rottie, I fed that poor dog SD because I didn't know any better. Otto was plagued by hot spots his entire life. Knowing what I know now, I believe Otto was allergic to something in what I fed him.

In the 1990s when the Internet came along, I had ample opportunity to learn about premium kibble, and so fed our dogs premium kibble. I also started learning about raw, but didn't move to feed raw.

Then we started fostering Sailor in January 2007. He had yeast and bacterial infections in his ears and his coat looked terrible. Sailor was the first foster who didn't do well on premium kibble--first 3 months of Canidae, followed by 3 months of CA Nat. His poops were frequent, huge, and ranged from firm to very loose (often one right after the other). He was tested for this and tested for that as my vet and I struggled to figure out what was wrong with him.

Finally my vet told me to put him on raw. I did alot of research--read books, talked to all the raw feeders I could find, attended a seminar on dog food, read extensively on the Web--before putting all the dogs on the raw prey model.

The change in Sailor has been nothing short of astonishing. His coat is now so glorious I call him my "Velveteen Rabbit"--he has the smoothest hair of any dog I know. His coat is so black it has a bluish hue to it in the sun. His ear infections are a thing of the past. I joke that Sailor is a celiac dog.

The change in our two personal Rotties hasn't been as extraordinary. I attribute this to their simply being healthier dogs than Sailor and all their lives they've gotten appropriate vet care and been feed premium kibble.

However, the coat of our youngest dog looks better on raw than it did on kibble. It's hard to say exactly how it look better, but it does. Slicker, perhaps?? Nicer to the touch??? I can't really put my finger on it, but I think she looks better.

I'm sorry I didn't start feeding raw years ago, but regret is useless and a waste of energy.

My journey with canine nutrition now has me at a place I think is the best for my dogs.

Henceforth, all personal dogs will be fed raw following the raw prey model.

[ginolarosa]

I Started Nayla with Tuna Cans , then made my way up .......

Didnt do NO RESEARCH whatsoeva on Raw Food ... but Ive already Owned 2 rottweilers before Nayla so i do know my stuff......

This is a lil bit of her food ..........I feed 50 % Raw and 50% Dry Food her fod

Dry Food with 2 cases of Sardines maybe Tuna but sardines are better with olive oil

4 pieces of chiken Legs mix with choped Fillet Meat

pasta liltle ones with yougurt and mince meat

all kind of bones mostly i feed my dog bones as a Dessert Treat Marrow Bones , Rib bones , knuckle bones etc

to answer your question Maxxx when my dog eats chiken bones she crushes it into pieces inside her mouth

[moondog]

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

As far as the comments on obese dogs, I disagree with you. Excess carbs are stored in the liver as glycogen and in the body as FAT. There are lots of dogs on crap kibble that are overweight.

Not sure what you're disagreeing with....that's almost exactly what I said.

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

I don't play games on this board.

And neither do I.

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

It cracks me up that people are so brainwashed with the "balanced commercial diet" thing. I strongly believe owners should feed the best they can.

I'm not sure who you think is brainwashed......I strongly believe the best an owner can feed is the diet that their dog can tolerate best that provides the nutrients they need to maintain health. For some that may be raw, for others home-prepared cooked, and for yet others whose owners do not have the ability to provide a nutritionally complete diet for whatever reason (whether it's balanced over time or per meal makes no difference as long as its balanced and the nutrients can be assimilated), the best bet to avoid deficiencies is a commercially prepared diet that provides the nutrients a dog needs. That last one, I fear, happens to be most of the dog population.

[TrinaJ]

Maxxx,

I give Jett chicken necks ans she crunches them up, takes about 4-5 bites and she's then onto the next one. She LOVES them. Sometimes she will even swallow the first one whole!!! She chomped up the whole carcus that I got for her the other day, no problems digesting it what so ever.

She is 7 months old and I am sticking to the diet that the breeder recommended to me, she is on premium kibble now (she was on IAMS before I was educated on it on this forum ) and raw. She gets kibble twice a day,with sardines and cottage cheese being lunch and with raw meat (lamb shanks/ground mince/steak chunks/kangaroo mince) and yoghurt. She also gets an egg twice a week.... Her stools have also changed, they are no longer sloppy, there are less of them and they aren't 'as' smelly (this I assume is to do with the change of kibble), also her coat is soft and shiney (no more dandruff either).

Brutus' Mum, you mentioned that your dogs eats an egg whole? I've never heard of that, does the shell not cut their mounth when they crack it? Is it the shell that has the calcium you are talking about? Could the shell get stuck in their throat? I know egg is for protein but I had no idea about the shell! How often should you feed the egg whole?

I am a little scared of going completely raw with Jett but the breeder did say to keep her on what she is eating now until she's between 9-12 months old and then we will review her diet. Perhaps she will advise me to go raw. I do know she buys a LOT of chicken carcus' but I've not really gone into what she feeds her older dogs yet.

Trina

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by TrinaJ

...Brutus' Mum, you mentioned that your dogs eats an egg whole? I've never heard of that, does the shell not cut their mounth when they crack it? Is it the shell that has the calcium you are talking about? Could the shell get stuck in their throat? I know egg is for protein but I had no idea about the shell! How often should you feed the egg whole?...

I'm not Brutus' Mom, but if a raw bone isn't going to damage your dog's mouth when they crunch into it, a thin egg shell can't possibly do damage. And neither will it get stuck in the dog's throat if they can swallow a bone, either whole or chewed. People feel eggs, shells and all. The shell has calcium, remember.

The only time my dogs get raw egg is if one I bought from the store has a crack. Then I'll put it in the blender to break it up but this is because I have three dogs. Otherwise, I'd give the whole egg to the dog.

[brutus'mother]

To the OP, I am really not trying to hihack your thread!

Moondog- what is the purpose of defending grains in a carnivores diet?
You said dogs can only digest cooked processed grains. My point is that the cooked and processed grains in kibble are practically void of any nutritional value (thus the reason for kibble manuf adding lots of synthetic vit and min) other than empty calories to pack on the pounds.
The general public has been "brainwashed" into believing the crap about a balanced commercial diet. I certainly hope you are not disagreeing that point.
I won't be drawn into a tit for tat with you as I have seen in many other threads so back to the topic at hand.....

[Maxxx]

Originally Posted by TrinaJ

Maxxx,

I give Jett chicken necks ans she crunches them up, takes about 4-5 bites and she's then onto the next one. She LOVES them. Sometimes she will even swallow the first one whole!!! She chomped up the whole carcus that I got for her the other day, no problems digesting it what so ever.

Do you freeze the chickens before giving them to Jett, or just fresh from the store? I've heard it's ok to give them fresh store bought chicken, no need to freeze, because their systems can take the bacteria. But, since Max will be eating it for the first time, should I freeze it? Doesn't it take a while for the stomach to build up the enzymes to break down the bacteria, if there is any? I just want to be safe

Originally Posted by brutus'mother

To the OP, I am really not trying to hihack your thread!

LOL no worries!

To those that feed their dogs a whole egg. Do you break it up and crush the shells, or just give them the egg whole? If you give them a whole egg, do they wonder what it is and how to eat it? Or is it instinctual? Should I show him the first time?