Joint Supplement Research

[Idealconcepts]

Ok, I have been doing some research on this site regarding joint supplements for preventative care, since our Rott pup is only 16 months old and the pup we are looking to take on is 2 years old. We know the background of our pup since we got her from the breeder at 3 months of age and have a copy of her pedigree. The 2 year old Rott, male, we don’t know as much detail on the background of the parents, but he current owner has had him since he was 7-8 weeks old and raised him. He is looking find a new home for the pup because he has started working 50-60 hours a week and is not able to care for the dog as he did in the past.

My questions are:
1. What is the correct mg amount for preventative care for Glucosamine HCL (I’ve read 1500mg), Chondroitron Sulfate (not sure), MSM (not sure)?
2. Are all three (Glucosamine, Chondroitron, and MSM) necessary for preventative care? Or what combination works best (Gluco+Chond, Gluco+MSM, or Chond+MSM)
3. For Chondroitron I have read the molecular size needs to smaller in order for a dog to absorb it into the body. Will a supplement for horses typically be small enough?
4. I have found pure powder forms of Glucosamine HCL, Chondroitron Sulfate, and MSM for horses on line at Equine supplement ★ horse vitamin and health care products and wanted to get some feedback regarding possibly using these supplements. This stuff looks very affordable compared to the stuff made specifically for dogs.
Glucosamine COLD FUSION ERROR

Chondroitron
COLD FUSION ERROR

MSM
COLD FUSION ERROR

I spoke with a woman at the company and she said they can’t say they recommend the supplements for dogs but she did say several times they do have people who buy the product and use it for their dog. I got the name of a nutritionist there who can give me more info and also about a product they will be coming out with in the next couple months made especially for dogs. I will need to call him back tomorrow.

So any feedback and suggestions is greatly appreciated.

[Ayoka]

I also have just begun researching these suppplements and I have found that the products marketed for dogs a INCREDIBLY over priced!

The vet I go to has told a friend of mine just to use the human capsules and adjust the dosage accordingly. She pays $10 a month for 3 dogs! (ranted they are all under 50 pounds and I'm not sure if it's just Glucosamine or all three).

I think this is likely the way we will go...capsules are NEVER a problem here as they are usually coated with peanut butter.

[JemarsSerena]

Can't speak for dogs, but glucosamine and chondroiton have worked wonders for me. My vet and I got in to a discussion about it when I dropped off my parents arthritic dog for bording. I convinced him to take it for himself. As for the dogs, he says that the human grade stuff is fine for dogs as well.

[luvmybts]

I use human grade from Costco, Gluc 500mg/Chond 400mg. It's in 1 pill, I paid $19 for 250 tablets. I have a small dog now, but it was reccomended for that an adult Rottweiler take 2 pills a day. I did used to use Doctors Foster & Smith "Joint Care plus Msm" Liver flavored granules. 12.25 oz it comes with a teeny tiny measuring spoon and reccommends dosage by size (i didnt use it for long as my dog was allergic to something in it) but I would venture to say that it would last an adult rottweiler atleast 3-6 months (200 scoops per bottle) and I paid $69.99 (although i noticed its on sale for $49.99 per their website). I am not sure if MsM has any noticable health benefits.

[Idealconcepts]

Thanks everyone for your response. I first looked into using human grade supplements and with one dog it was not a significant savings compared to buying the dog stuff online. I spent about half and hour comparing the different joint supplements they have at Costco, and none had the 3 supplements in decent amounts. This is when I started looking into horse supplements in the powered form. I have also read that some of the lower priced human grade supplements quality is questionable and the coating they use for the bills makes it tough for dogs to digest. Mainly why I haven’t made a decision yet on what to use, this is my second time around looking into this in the last 2-3 months

[zorro13]

MSM is a natural anti-inflammatory. You wouldn't need the MSM unless your dog has pain/arthritis/medical issues. Yes, the products for dogs are much more expensive. I have a horse myself and at one time my vet prescribed him a chond/gluc product. Not all of these products work the same, there has been much controversy in the horse world over companies marketing products that don't carry the recommended amt. of these ingredients. If you are going to use a horse product, it must be dosed for the dog of course. I suggest Cosequin. And, you can use the human form as well.

[dennisj]

Originally Posted by luvmybts

I use human grade from Costco, Gluc 500mg/Chond 400mg. It's in 1 pill, I paid $19 for 250 tablets. I have a small dog now, but it was reccomended for that an adult Rottweiler take 2 pills a day. I did used to use Doctors Foster & Smith "Joint Care plus Msm" Liver flavored granules. 12.25 oz it comes with a teeny tiny measuring spoon and reccommends dosage by size (i didnt use it for long as my dog was allergic to something in it) but I would venture to say that it would last an adult rottweiler atleast 3-6 months (200 scoops per bottle) and I paid $69.99 (although i noticed its on sale for $49.99 per their website). I am not sure if MsM has any noticable health benefits.

I think the primary benefit of msm is in the reduction of pain in the joint. It does nothing to do with restoring the joint. So I've been told. I'm using the Foster and Smith Joint care also. Bought a few during their summer sale, but when they are gone I may look for something cheaper in human grade.

[fostermom]

I haven't found anything that offers significant savings, but I did just order a liquid glucosamine/chondroitin plus MSM that I thought was better priced than most....I've heard that liquid offers 98% absorption whereas absorption with pills is much lower. I was ordering Syn-flex but this new one (I have to go home to check name) also has the MSM

As far as what I give my dogs (weight between 80 and 95lbs):
1500 glucosamine
1200 condroitin
200 vit E
1000 fish oil (I think one site suggested 1000/30 lbs or as tolerated)
ester C 1000
MSM 1000

When I adopted my older girl at around 8 (or more!!) she was already very stiff gated...she is now at least 12 and is still reasonably functional..bunny hops up stairs and a bit slow to get up. I credit the suppliments with slowing the progression of the arthritis.

[BostonRott]

Yep, Fostermom's levels are pretty much right on.

The biggest problem with the supplement industry is lack of regulation and I refuse to buy based on cost basis. There have been numerous TV "studies" which showed many of the cheaper versions dont contain much of anything, never mind what they're labelled as.

I've had excellent luck with Cosequin DS (purchased on Ebay for best prices) ad Glycoflex III.

[fostermom]

Went home and looked up brand of liquid gluc/chond I just ordered...check out this link:
TherapyZone physical therapy and fitness products, liquid glucosamine, slant board and Overdoor pulley.

I am giving 1/2 tablespoon/day and that delivers
1000 gluc sulfate
1000 gluc HCl
1200 chond
500 MSM
60 Vit C

Kenya does seem to do better with the liquid products. SynFlex is also another good one.
I also suppliment her with an additional :
1000 MSM
500 Ester C
200 Vit E
1000 fish oil

There is not supposed to be any toxicity associated with higher levels of MSM.
Also, I use fish oil, NOT flaxseed oil which a lot of dogs don't tolerate well; plus flaxseed oil is not absorbed well through the dogs shorter intestines, and I have read that the omega 6 in flaxseed oil "supports" both inflammation and cancer; omega 3 in fish oil does not. At least that is my understanding...someone can jump in if I'm wrong.

[Dugganmom]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

Yep, Fostermom's levels are pretty much right on.

The biggest problem with the supplement industry is lack of regulation and I refuse to buy based on cost basis. There have been numerous TV "studies" which showed many of the cheaper versions dont contain much of anything, never mind what they're labelled as.

I've had excellent luck with Cosequin DS (purchased on Ebay for best prices) ad Glycoflex III.

I think i have asked this before but do they make Cosequin in pill instead of chewable? Duggan does not like it and it is a fight..i cannot hide it in anything either..he finds it.

[fostermom]

I'm seeing cosequin in capsules and chewables on multiple sites.

[Mathilde's]

Originally Posted by Idealconcepts

My questions are:
1. What is the correct mg amount for preventative care for Glucosamine HCL (I’ve read 1500mg), Chondroitron Sulfate (not sure), MSM (not sure)?
2. Are all three (Glucosamine, Chondroitron, and MSM) necessary for preventative care? Or what combination works best (Gluco+Chond, Gluco+MSM, or Chond+MSM)
3. For Chondroitron I have read the molecular size needs to smaller in order for a dog to absorb it into the body. Will a supplement for horses typically be small enough?
4. I have found pure powder forms of Glucosamine HCL, Chondroitron Sulfate, and MSM for horses on line at Equine supplement ★ horse vitamin and health care products and wanted to get some feedback regarding possibly using these supplements. This stuff looks very affordable compared to the stuff made specifically for dogs.

...

I spoke with a woman at the company and she said they can’t say they recommend the supplements for dogs but she did say several times they do have people who buy the product and use it for their dog. I got the name of a nutritionist there who can give me more info and also about a product they will be coming out with in the next couple months made especially for dogs. I will need to call him back tomorrow.

So any feedback and suggestions is greatly appreciated.

1. 1500 mg of gluco is correct (average rott). Chon 1200 mg, MSM 500 - 1000 mg.

2. If you have to choose only two, it would be Gluco+Chond.

3. The molecular size of the chondroitin differs in both dog and horse supplements. But it is correct that they should be broken down as much as possible (for both dogs and horses). I think this is where price differences come in.

4. There is no reason to stay away from the supplements meant for horses. You will only get away with paying less for the same product. Both my vet and my holistic vet have confirmed this, as well as my friend who is an animal acupuncturist (?). Here in Norway most people with arthritic dogs use the horse supplements.

I would like to hear the nutritionist's point of view as well.

But I am curious: Do you have any reason to suspect sceletal problems in any of your dogs, or are you only beeing cautious?

[Dugganmom]

Originally Posted by fostermom

I'm seeing cosequin in capsules and chewables on multiple sites.

Where is the best place to get them...is ebay ok? i looked and some dont have pics of the cosequin is there anywhere else? Thanks in advance for anwsering all of my questions!!

[OdinsMom01]

I've purchased Cosequin DS from Entirelypets.com, they are having a sale at the moment. I've also used Healthypets.com, I think they are running the same sale. You might try them and see if the prices there are any better or comparable to Ebay.