Puppy dog food or Adult dog food?

[German Vanegas]

I posted this reply in another thread, but then I thought it would be best to open a new discussion topic with it. So here it is:

Allow me to clarify this: the right combinations of calcium and phosphorus are the ones that promote a puppy's bone structure development (or grow). The wrong ratios of calcium and phosphorus can have serious negative effects on a puppy, whether be excess or lack of these two minerals. Therefore, as long as you get a puppy formulation from a reputable dog food manufacturer, chances are it will contain the desired ratios of calcium and phosphorus for the appropriate development of the growing puppy.

In the other hand, protein builds tissue, muscle, and it is absolutely vital for the healthy development of a growing puppy, who demands a higher nutrition level than an adult dog. However, excesses of protein can overburden the dog's kidneys, so again the right amount of it is of paramount importance.
Having said all of the above, I want to emphasize, again, that most SUPER PREMIUM PUPPY FORMULATIONS have the necessary ratios of high quality protein, carbs, fats, vitamins and minerals for an adequate nutrition, as demanded by a growing puppy. The problem lies on the fact that "generic puppy foods" not only are of low quality, but have undesired ratios of sources of nutrition, thus affecting the puppy's positive development.

In my opinion, this new tendency to feed growing puppies with adult foods is wrong. Puppies have different nutrition needs than adults. Just spend a little more money on your beloved dog and buy the finest food you can get! That will make the whole difference in the world

[Judi W]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by German Vanegas:

In my opinion, this new tendency to feed growing puppies with adult foods is wrong. Puppies have different nutrition needs than adults.

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I would like to vote and revote on this one! Feeding the growing pup in such a fashion as to malnourish it while thinking to mask HD seems to me to be very foolish indeed.

[pride-and-joy]

Please help me understand how Canidae (one formula for all ages) is OK for both puppies and adults if there are indeed different nutrition requirements for growth stages.

I have been feeding Canidae to my boy who is now 6 months for the past 3 months with excellent results (ie. less dandruff, shiny coat, clear eyes, good weight gain rate, less gas ).

My decision to switch from Nutro Large Breed Puppy was based on the positive recommendations of this forum, the feed store, and some "blind faith."

I hope I am doing the best for my new buddy....

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pride-and-joy:
Please help me understand how Canidae (one formula for all ages) is OK for both puppies and adults if there are indeed different nutrition requirements for growth stages.

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Good question! My answer is: that's precisely why I would feed a growing puppy with a super premium PUPPY dog food formulation, until he/she is about 12 months of age, and then I switch to Canidae. I personally don't believe in "all stages of life" dog food

[Jeff Stanley]

I’m wondering about the protein levels in puppy food.

Puppies in the wild did not have anything different than the other dogs.

Puppies have mothers milk for the first 8 to 12 weeks of life, but mothers milk only contains 7.5 percent protein.

Some of the common puppy feed contains 28 to 30% protein.

Isn’t that a lot of protein? Do you think a puppy needs that % of protein?


[This message has been edited by Jeff Stanley (edited December 29, 2000).]

[Judi W]

Actually, "puppies" did not live in the "wild" and for sure your purebred large sized dog did not develop in the wild. If you are referring to wild canidae, the mortality rate is very high. Mother nature is not particularly benign nor particularly kind.

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jeff Stanley:

Puppies have mothers milk for the first 8 to 12 weeks of life, but mothers milk only contains 7.5 percent protein.

Some of the common puppy feed contains 28 to 30% protein.

Isn’t that a lot of protein? Do you think a puppy needs that % of proitein</font>

Do you realize that 28 to 30% protein only means the percentage of protein content over the total amount of food content? And not the quality of the protein content at all. Mother's milk contains one of the highest quality biological values of protein (pure form amino acids) of all food sources, that's why is so vital and nutritious to growing puppies

Growth is attributed to calcium and phosphorus intake. These minerals support bone structure development. Lack or excess of those two minerals may cause serious health ailmnets. In the other hand, protein builds and repairs tissue, however, excesses of it are bad for the liver and kidneys.

The key is to have a dog food formulation within desired ratios of nutritients. If you get cheap food, well you get cheap nutrition

[valdes43]

Great Topic! I've been thinking about this for a while myself. I think I've got to lean a little more towards feeding pups super premium adult food. Now I'll tell you right now I have no concrete scientific evidence to prove this but when in doubt I look at nature. There are all kinds of articles that debate this same issue both with valid points. I tell you this there is not an animal in the forest that has the vaguest idea of what the FDA recommends for nutritional value and they do a lot better than we do as far as diseases. You never see wolves feeding their pups prey with more nutritional content. The difference between us and nature is we have the responsibility to ensure that our beloved companions get the nutritional value they need. Therefore whatever we give them is what they get nothing more or nothing less. Reason I say this is because sometimes our bodies crave certain foods for nutritional reasons. It is said people who die of old age really die from a deficiency in the body.

SOOOO I look at a food like Innova ingredients being Turkey, Chicken, Brown rice, Potatoes, Apples, Carrots, Cottage cheese, Alfafa sprouts, Eggs, and garlic. All organic and chemical free ingredients. I feel comfortable with this supplying sufficient nutritional value regardless of age. JMO

I don't know sometimes I feel puppy food is a marketing gimmick. You'd be amazed what happens behind the scenes to sell products. Social hypnotism is a BIO*CH!!

[netescapee]

Know anything about a study that my vet mentioned that recommends higher level plant proteins versus meat proteins to prevent HD in growing puppies?

I know I came across this study at an .edu site but can't find it. I think this study may be what was prompting the switching to adult dog food for puppies.

My vet talked about not growing the ligaments and muscle too quickly compared to the bone. And I think the study I read said something similar.

Do you know anyting about this German? I've got 6.5 mo Gracie on adult dog food (Wysong right now) but am supplementing it with some raw meat, veggies, glucoasmine/chondroitin, etc.

This is all so confusing!! Even the vets don't know.

[pride-and-joy]

Ok German, now I am confused. I have a brand new bag of Canidae that I just bought. I hate to switch again...poor guy...he will have to go through gas and the runs all over again to acclimate to another food. Jake has been on the Canidae for 3 months.

Is there anything I can supplement the Canidae with for the next 6 months until he reaches 1 year old? Say, perhaps, mix it with a canned variety of super premium puppy food to make up for the deficiencies??

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by valdes43:
I tell you this there is not an animal in the forest that has the vaguest idea of what the FDA recommends for nutritional value and they do a lot better than we do as far as diseases. You never see wolves feeding their pups prey with more nutritional content.

I don't know sometimes I feel puppy food is a marketing gimmick. You'd be amazed what happens behind the scenes to sell products. Social hypnotism is a BIO*CH!! </font>

In the wild, carnivoruous animals prey on other animals. They eat raw meat and organs, which contains the best quality protein (non-processed and uncooked), and is rich in natural vitamins and minerals. However, as Judy pointed out already, the rate of mortality in the development stages of those animals (i.e. wolves) is high. Only the very strong survive. You have to understand the important role and functions that protein, vitamins and minerals, play in the proper development and overall weel-being of living creatures

And yes, most dog food manufacturers spend their money in advertising schemes than in top quality ingredients in their food formulations. You have to educate yourself about the subject to select the finest food for your dogs

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by netescapee:
Know anything about a study that my vet mentioned that recommends higher level plant proteins versus meat proteins to prevent HD in growing puppies?

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There is no one formal study, that I know of, that proves any correlation between CHD and protein, although the calcium and phosphurus intake seems to be quite questionable as a cause or promoter of that disease. However, genetic transmission continues being the number cause

[valdes43]

Great Reply, you are definitely right about raw material being enriched with vitamins and minerals. I am also aware that nutrition plays an extremely important role in developement.

The strong do survive and I believe the rate of mortality has less to due with nutrition than anything. Maybe lack of resources or man destroying enviornment or being kicked out of the pack.

That still has nothing to with pups eating adult food. Should our adults take advantage of puppy food to reap the benifits of extra supplementation? Why aren't our dogs and pups receiving the same nutrition as they would in the wild?

You're a great guy German and I do appreciate the info you offer.

[WorkinDogz]

Ok German...dip that quill in the ink and get ready to sign on the dotted line

I have NEVER fed any of my dogs a kibble of puppy food ever.

I've been doing this long before it was "vogue" and eons before "Large Breed" puppy food.

Not one of MY dogs or their progeny have ever had pano, OCD, CHD, ED or problems with their skelature. (don't count the Ex's...his dogs are HIS...his "research" (HA!) his rearing...I only inherited them.)

I will continue this practice with any and all future pups too.

Oh and German....I want allllll the tracking lines AND the KennelAire crates. You can have the Vari Kennels and I'll throw in a couple of red bottoms....just because of our history

[German Vanegas]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by valdes43:
That still has nothing to with pups eating adult food. Should our adults take advantage of puppy food to reap the benifits of extra supplementation? Why aren't our dogs and pups receiving the same nutrition as they would in the wild?

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Bro I believe that growing puppies need the right intake of calcium and phosphorus for the proper development of a solid skeletal structure. As you well know, protein builds and repairs tissue, which is so important during the growth phase. Therefore, the right combination of nutrients have a significant influence in the optimal development and overall well-being of a dog. Of course, the WRONG combinations have detrimental negative effects



[This message has been edited by German Vanegas (edited December 29, 2000).]