feeding evo and weight gain?

[guinnessgirl]

hi all. we switched guinness to evo from canidae. the canidae just didn't work for her. evo seems good, her coat is looking a *bit* better, but we are having lab tests done due to other symptoms. anyway.

on 04/15/05, guinness weighed in at 85.9 pounds. at that time, we were told she needed to lose about 5-8 pounds to be at ideal weight for her size. we cut her food down slowly and started adding in some green beans and pumpkin to try to keep her full (HA! fat chance of that). well, she went to the vet this a.m. for her bloodwork, and she weighed in at 107!!!! gaaaaa! a 20 pound weight GAIN!!!!

so, barring any medical problems (preliminary blood results tomorrow), i wanted to see if i caused this gain. she currently gets 2/3 measuring cup of evo two times a day, with green beans and sometimes pumpkin as a filler. is this amount ok? bad? am i doing something wrong?

thank you all for your time. if i haven't said it before, well here it is... i certainly do appreciate everyone's help in educating me in everything dog - whether it be direct posts to me, or others posts that i read on here. i feel so inadequate sometimes... LOL... its as if you all were just born understanding the dog world!

kindly,
susanna

[SigTau66]

IMO (and I could be wrong), that amount of food with fillers seems really low for her to gain 20 lbs unless she is a complete vegatable and doesn't move during the day.

I personally feed my dog up to 3 cups of EVO per day with many treats. He's 11 months old and I'm lucky if he gains a few pounds a month (he's in the 70-80 lb range right now).

So unless you're not letting on to some other food source she could be getting, e.g. table scraps, significant other giving food, etc., I don't see how she could gain that much weight just from food.

[guinnessgirl]

oh, good! thats what i wanted to hear (well, sort of). no, there are no undisclosed sources... well, save for that leftover steamed broccoli she stole off my mother in law's counter last month. lots of gas, but certainly not 20 pounds worth of broccoli.

so, it seems that there is something to this medical bit. i just wanted to make sure that i wasn't accidentally over feeding her... guess i just needed a bit of reassurance on my part.

now i'm anxious to get the results tomorrow.

[mook1620]

I feed EVO, and I don't add in anything. Mook, at 6 months and 76#, gets 2 cups total a day, and so does Veg, at 120#, and 9 years old. When Veg started beefing up, I cut his food back from 2.5 cups to 2. He's already trimming down. I don't think they need anything else, at 537 kcal/cup.

[BostonRott]

A growing puppy has COMPLETELY different metabolism and dietary needs than an adult. Xcel was eating 4C of Evo per day as a growing pup and grew nicely.

For the amount that you say you're feeding her, I can't see a reason for a 20lb weight gain across 5mos.

Is anyone sneaking her more food or being sloppy in measuring?

[guinnessgirl]

guinness walks a minimum of a mile every night, i am the only one who feeds her breakfast and dinner, and training treats have been no-salt added, rinsed then frozen green beans (she really LOVES green beans, especially frozen!) and in her bowl, i only add in some beans as a filler... otherwise, she would probably start eating her paws. guinness has had a huge appetite for as long as i can remember (we've had her 4 years). only recently did i start to notice other things and make the connection that it might be medical. when guinness would tear through the garbage, we always just attributed it to her "street dog" roots. but, thanks to this board and some other things that have been going on... always tired, panting all the waking time, the huge weight gain with a pot belly, won't readily jump on the bed anymore, etc... i finally realized it could be something medical so we took her to the vet this a.m. she is being tested for cushings, diabetes, hypothyroid, and i guess probably some other stuff (those are the biggies that i knew).

mostly, i am sitting here ruminating while i wait for the preliminary test results tomorrow. and while i ruminate, i am trying to come up with ways that this is my fault, and that guinness is not really sick. but, the vet said that it would take quite a bit of food and very little exercise for her to gain THAT much in that short of a time period. ~sigh~

oh, also... she said that grapes and raisins are harmful to dogs??? i didn't know that. another strike against me as a bad rottie owner... i feed guinness grapes all the time... she loves them, especially frozen ones in the summer. does anyone know why grapes are bad for a dog?

[TUindecisive]

Poor girl...perhaps the blood tests will tell if there is a problem? Like everyone else said, that doesn't sound like too much food. You might try keeping the same amount of food and fillers but feeding some of it frozen in a kong. Maybe putting some water in with the frozen green beans and freezing the whole thing? Keeping her occupied for a while while eating might help her feel full with the same amount or less food.

As for the grapes/raisin thing, I hadn't heard that until I came to this board. I have a friend with 2 wolf hybrid dogs (ugh, I know) who feeds them grapes all the time, with no ill effects, so at least they aren't completely toxic. Don't consider yourself a bad owner! Everyone knows about chocolate, but onions/grapes stuff like that is a little less known. I hope the tests identify the problem and that it isn't too serious! Good luck.

[guinnessgirl]

well, the results are in... and, guinness' blood came back clean! so, no cushings, diabetes mellitus or hypothyroidism at this time. however, her urine was not quite right. i have to bring another sample in tomorrow morning (a sunday?!?!), but the doc thinks that she might have diabetes insipidus (which is totally unrelated to diabetes mellitus). in other words, she's apparently not concentrating her urine right. i haven't been able to find out much about it on the web, but i figure once he gives me the definitive diagnosis i will go full guns on the research.
as for her weight gain, he rambled on something about it being water retention or some such issue... it was hard to keep up with him! he did say that he would go over the results more thoroughly in person... and i will, of course, ask for a copy of the labs.

so, it seems that i am not over feeding guinnes, but that something is indeed awry. diagnosis is the first step to treatment!

thanks to everyone who offered their opinion and support. i really needed it...

kindly,
susanna

[frontierrots]

Diabetes insipidus is rare and it dehydrates the person/dog they do not retain water. If she had this she would drink and drink and drink and pee and pee and pee and the urine would be clear

Did the vet do a 6 panel thyroid test sent to Michigan State or just the lab T4 ? If he did not do a 6 panel at Michigan State, I'd redraw and do it again

Also... you don't have cats or horses do you?? IF yes, could she be sneaking horse or cat feed? or eating horse poop? all those pack on pounds also

Are you 110% positive that no one else in your home is feeding her ANYthing??

[guinnessgirl]

yeh, the water retention thing confused me too. her urine comes out frequently, and in large volumes. but the sample i took the other day didn't seem particularly clear - in fact, her regular vet remarked that it was rather cloudy. it wasn't her regular vet that gave out the info on the phone yesterday (and kept referring to guinness as "he". )

is there any way that the food switch could be causing some of the issues? we switched from canidae to evo. her coat seems to be a little better... still kind of dull, shedding terribly and very dandruff-y. the dandruff is terrible, actually. its large bits of dandruff, looks like she was out in a sleet storm. could this be a result of an allergy to either something in the canidae or the evo???

yep, we have a cat... after the first year with guinness... my husband literally screwed the cat's bowl to a tall dresser. guinness was a master at using her paw to knock the bowl off and get at the food. now, all the food is locked away (don't want the human baby getting at it!). i suppose it is possible that someone has been sneaking her food... its usually my dad, but he hasn't been over my house in months. so, i'll have to look into that. i can't think of anything she could be finding out in our fenced yard to eat, except maybe grass. i don't even have any flowers planted out in the yard yet! i suppose maybe i need one of those "Please don't feed the animals" signs! i truly can't think of anyone who could be sneaking her a lot of extra food... but, you never know and i am not about to make the statement that i know 110% that she is not getting food from another source (as a street dog, she learned to be pretty resourceful). i am willing to say that it is unlikely that she is getting food from another source.

as for the thyroid panel... nothing was sent to michigan, so i suppose they only did the T4 lab. is michigan state the only place that does it (i'm assuming you mean the university...). does the michigan state website have more information about this????

kindly,
susanna

[JeanT]

Not sure if it's MSU, but it is "Michigan" and from what my vet said last week, it is only done there.I don't know how unreliable the T4 is generally, but 2 months before my dog died it was "normal" (one of his symptoms was a rapid huge weight gain over a few months even though I was cutting his food waaaay back). Just before he died the T4 was extremely elevated (can't recall figures). If a thyroid panel is indicated, I will never again accept a T4 - it will be Michigan.

[frontierrots]

crappy coat, snowstorm of dandruff and huge weight gain scream thyroid to me. It is not the kibble, not in the quantity you mention

Yes MSU is the place of choice for thyroid tests. a 6 panel test is the one. Dr Dodds (I believe she's in Ca) reccomends MSU or Antech and she will interpet the results and offer advice to your vet if you wish. She is THE metabolic (esp thyroid) disease expert in the US. Somewhere online is a submission form to even send the blood directly to her. Some people do that but most simply send the results or call her with them

Your dog for sure has some metabolic issue thatis unrelated to food quantity

[guinnessgirl]

thanks guys... i'm off to figure out how to get some blood to this place in michigan! i guess it sounds like i should dig deeper into the thyroid hunch and not so much the kibble - thanks for the info, frontierrots. although i am going to continue keeping a closer eye on guinness' "extraneous" food intake.

jeant, i am so sorry to hear about your guy. i am more determined now than ever to find out what's up with guinness.

thanks for all the help!

kindly,
susanna

[dogsbestfriend]

So you guys give EVO to your pups ??? ZI was interested in feeding my 5 month old pup EVO but I was told that it is not a good food for pups under 1 years old ???

[mook1620]

Originally Posted by dogsbestfriend

So you guys give EVO to your pups ??? ZI was interested in feeding my 5 month old pup EVO but I was told that it is not a good food for pups under 1 years old ???

The manufacturer does not recommend EVO for puppies due to the fact the average pet owner tends to over-feed. I've been using EVO for a little over a month now for Mook, and he's 6.5 months own now. He get's 2 cups total a day. If you do a search, there is alot of information on EVO.