Raw feeding-A few questions

[Annacakes]

This question is probably best directed to German as he seems to be the authority here, but any help is appreciated.

Three rescues, Sheeba 3 yo F, altered, 5 mo female and male littermates, Nala and Atticus, both altered. Feeding raw for 3 weeks.

Glop or no glop? All the books say glop. All the yahoo groups say no glop. We tried it... Then we began to have an air quality problem ! Glop consisted of collards, summer squash (non starchy), sweet potato, garlic, green beans, whole eggs with shells. Stopped glop due to flatulence.

By middle of week two everyone began to blow their coat. Sheeba who has always had stinky oily coat now has baby soft furr with no odor. Hooray! Also her toxic three mile island breath has disappeared. She is doing great!

Problem is pups. Their coats are coarser and tighter and not as shiny. They are no longer bouncing of the walls with tons of kinetic energy and their growth has slowed considerably. Also they seem a little thin. No visible bones or ribs. They have a nice high tuck and a visible waist from above. I am just noticing more muscle definition, especially with Atticus, than I had before on kibble. Atticus is now 57 pounds and Nala is 52. I am feeding 2% of expected adult weight which is 120 for Atticus and 90 for Nala.

Diet consists of yogurt and cottage cheese with liver and muscle meat for breakfast. They also all get a whole egg every other day.

Dinner is mainly leg quarters or pork neckbones and the occaisional heart or chicken gizzards.

Atticus is eating 8 oz of muscle meat (Emu or venison) and 25 oz of RMB's a day plus liver and the dairy. Nala is eating 6 oz of muscle meat and 19oz of RMB's. Is this enough?

Supplements? With no glop do they need them? If so what and how much. Please don't give me a list of 11 things. Some of the websites I have seen have a list of supplements as long as my arm. I don't want this to become ridiculously complicated or expensive. Raw is suposed to be better. If it requires three dozen supplements a day, how is it better?

Thanks for the help.

[Carol Burke]

OK, the diet I feed my dogs and have fed for the past five years consists of chicken backs or pork necks in the AM. At night I feed glop consisting of green beans, collard greens, sweet potatoes, squash, any other veggie on sale, apples or apple sauce, oranges, garlic, organ meat, eggs including shells, 1/4 lb hamburger per dog. I add brewers yeast, Glyco Flex, Vitamin C, Prozyme, Olive oil and a multi vitamin. It usually works out that the veggie mixture is about 30% of the total evening meal. The hamburger and organ meats make up 70% of the meal. I find that buying my veggies on sale or at a vegtable stand and my chicken at a wholesaler, I can feed raw cheaper then I could feed a high quality kibble, including supplements.

[k9mam]

Originally Posted by Annacakes

Glop or no glop? Supplements?

IMO, the vast majority of us will never be able to construct the 'whole prey animal' or ever come remotely close to providing foods that are equal in quality to those found in nature. (Due in part to feed animals raised on grain vs grass, the use of hormones and antibiotics, the condition in which these animals are kept, freezing meats, the fact that we seldom include heads, all organs, etc) I also feel that our pets systems are subjected to more stress, (Pollution, less fresh air, vaccines, flea/tick/heartworm preventatives, etc) and that because 'survival of the fittest' is not employed the gene pool is, in general, less vigorous. For these reasons, I feel supplementation in required. Adding some properly prepared veggies and fruits occasionally may also help to cover more bases. But if your dog doesn't tolerate them, by all means don't feed them. I used to try to give Xator a cup or two every 10-14 days, but have become increasingly inconsistent with it so I've taken a different route. Ideally, I would like to feed green tripe but I can't afford it at the moment.

I am currently supplementing with Vit C & E, salmon oil, garlic gelcaps (in spring and summer), and Barley Dog. He gets his supps in the AM with just enough yogurt & eggs, canned fish, or - as of last week - canned dog food to mask their taste. I added the dog food because it allows me the chance to give some meats I wouldn't be able to feed him otherwise (buffalo, venison, beef tripe) as well as provide the veggies I find myself no longer preparing. His meals are usually a whole bird, turkey leg, lamb breast, or pork shoulder with a couple of chicken feet for dessert (and gluco/chon). He gets a small amount of organ meat almost everyday. And of course the odd pigs' tail or foot, goat leg, steak, quail, berry, cat turd, healthy table scrap, etc, etc, etc.....

[mmgy]

I've seen you post on at least one of those yahoo groups.....know what you mean! Every one of those groups has a different focus, but it's not always clear to you when you join.

I'm not educated enough myself to judge on glop or no-glop, but I have one observation for you. I was taught that puppies ate 5-10% of their current weight. At least 5% for any puppy, up to 10% for say, a vizsla. Comparing my calculations to yours, you might be slightly underfeeding them. And, puppies on raw are usually VERY lean, unless you're adding some kind of carb to their diet.