Meat diet...? question for raw food experts.

[Beckysmom]

After trying to get my dog to eat other choices than Canidae because I think he might have a sensitivity to turkey, and not getting much of anywhere with his acceptance level of other kibbles, I went farther toward all raw, and also more toward single foods at a time to try to sort out the allergy / sensitivity situation.

he seems to do well with (and not surprisingly love) all beef which I can get locally in grass fed, antibiotic hormone free form .
Our testing has shown that he seems also to tolerate eggs, oatmeal soaked in water and a little apple cider vinegar, garlic--though he does not much like any of them. And cooked fish.

Seems to me that that is enough items to start an all raw diet with. What would be the minimum other ingredients that I would need to add to that to make it well balanced for him on a longer term basis than just trying out foods in elimination diet process? And how high a percentage of the total can I go on the meat part?

[Rott-Wiley]

Bone meal -- that's a must to offset all the phosphorus in the meat. I'd also add: fish oil capsules -- for the omega 3 & 6. B complex and vitamins C and E. [That is just a minimum suggestion. You could do the other stuff like; kelp, safflower oil, garlic, yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.]

[frontierrots]

instead of bone meal (which is often contaminated with heavy metals- it's made from adult animal bones) you can use Calcium Citrate pills at the rate of 800mg per one pound of meat (or 400 mg per cup )that does not have edible bones in it

Canned salmon or mackeral has edible bones so don't add calcium to that

[Rott-Wiley]

You can get a "human grade" bone meal from a health food store and it doesn't contain all that other junk in it. It's made from organic fed cows and it doesn't cost that much more.

[mmgy]

Kate, I'm right there with you, trying to get this right. I've gone raw/homecooked with my old dog, who because he's old, is better served by a diet that's roughly 50% carbs. We use a mishmash of prepared diets, including Nature's Variety (95% meat), Steve's (60% meat), and NuDimensions, which makes raw 2 ways: 100% meat and bone, or 50-50 meat and veggies. They suggest you feed 75% of the meat and bone product, and 25% of the meat/veggie product. All these are designed to be complete when fed alone. So, I imagine "how much meat" becomes somewhat of an individual issue, contingent on Bodhi's tolerances.

And my calcium source--when needed--is ground eggshell.

[Beckysmom]

Thanks!!!

He gets bones as bones. Does he still need either bonemeal, calcium citrate, or ground eggshell? (If so, I like the ground eggshell idea as we are expecting our hens to arrive shortly!)

raw eggs: Seems to be there is controversy about it regarding the whites depleting biotin. Opinions?

[Carina43]

No need for bone meal if he's getting at least 10% bone in his diet. (An average prey type animal is about 10% edible bone.)

Don't forget organ meat - liver, kidneys, etc. Beef heart is excellent - it's both muscle and organ. Canned fish like mackerel is good too. Eggs are fine as long as the whole egg is fed; the biotin in the yolk makes up for potential biotin loss from eating the whites. But honestly I wouldn't worry about such minutae unless he's getting one or more eggs a day. :)

The Lonsdale (DVM) raw feeding model calls for meat and bones, period. No vegetables, no eggs, no whatever else unless medically necessary. I personally feed about 20% "other stuff" because, well, because my dogs like it, it does no harm, and possibly covers other nutritional bases.

Green tripe reeks to high heaven but dogs LOVE it. Very high in various enzymes. I had mixed a teeny bit with hot dogs for training, and had it in my treat baggie at obedience class once. Everyone else's dogs wanted to follow me everywhere...!

[Beckysmom]

What exactly is green tripe (am I going to be sorry I asked?) and where does one get it?

[Carina43]

Originally posted by Beckysmom
What exactly is green tripe (am I going to be sorry I asked?) and where does one get it?

It's the partially digested contents of the cow's stomach (I call it pre-poop), ground up with the stomach lining and sold as dog food. :p NOT the same as the bleached tripe sold in some grocery stores (usually for menudo soup.)

It's hard to find independently, but many of the raw food purveyors sell it - raw4dogs, bravo, Aunt Jens. If you go to my site there's a list of commercial raw companies on the links page.

Great stuff, and I'm pretty used to the smell! It's certainly not a necessity, but is beneficial and dogs go nuts for it. It is very commonly fed in Europe to racing & lure coursing dogs.

[Beckysmom]

carina: How do I go to your site?

[lblax]

you said he hasnt accepted other kibbles???? did you try california natural???

[Carina43]

Originally posted by Beckysmom
carina: How do I go to your site?

Click on the WWW button at the bottom of the post. :)

Here's the links page:
http://www.raw-dogs.com/links.html

[patricia rees]

I am a member of the Raw Feeding list on Yahoo. Its on the list from Carina43. Very good information, on it. I went to completely raw, last month.Have not looked back.

[rottnkidd]

Hi Kate - Good advice from Carina, and I don't have much to add, just remember to use as much VARIETY as you can. By feeding a
variety of meats, organs and raw meaty bones, you're more likely to cover a nutritional spectrum. I feed the rmb's for the a.m. meal, and meat/egg/whole milk yogurt daily for the p.m. meal. I add organ meat to the p.m. meal 3-4x a wk, and sometimes I'll add a dollup of cottage cheese or ricotta. I also feed a snack of pork, lamb, veal or beef necks or ribs for a bedtime snack. I use a blend of sea greens so I'm not adding veggies on a regular basis, instead I'll add steamed veggies from our dinner on occasion. There's enough Omega6 in the diet, so I add salmon oil for the Omega3, except on the days she eats fish. (Omega3's are vital to good health, even for people! Our diets really lack this essential fatty acid, so consider it's use, or use cold-pressed flax seed oil for yourself and your dog!)
My girl isn't a huge fan of the fish meals so I mix in a bit of fresh hamburger, an egg, and tad of sweet potato. She loves it that way.
She's been eating raw over 3 yrs now, and is sound, calm,
and a very hard worker! She's also the most beautiful Rottie on the planet! ;) (I just had to throw that in there! lol) Best wishes -
kathy

[Beckysmom]

Originally posted by lblax
you said he hasnt accepted other kibbles???? did you try california natural???

He hasn't accepted kibbles I am willing--at least at this time-- to give him. He was offered some Nutro and loved it. If I were to become convinced that it was the best food for this particular dog I would do it...but I think the long term health interests of the dog probably are best served by one of the better foods.

In first food tests when he arrived he preferred innova to canidae, but had bad poop quality with it. He will tolerate grudgingly Calif Natural mixed in with his Canidae in a transitional sort of way (though not alone)--but then pukes and or has very mushy BM.

He may be okay witht he Duck and Potato stuff--we got a bag of treats and he liked them, but they were out of small bags of the food, and since it is a store that has a money back if your dog won't eat it policy, which I had already made good on several times, they wouldn't let me open a really big bag and offer it to him. They will get small bags in soon. That may work as a kibble I hope since I don't want to always have to feed him raw, home made etc. And soon someone in Eugene is supposed to carry Blue Buffalo, so we are getting a sample of that to see whether he will at least consider eating it.

BTW I found a thing called Dr. Harvey's sold via Earth Animal that supplies the things the dog needs other than some oil water and meat source as a way to do nutritionally well balanced home prepared food without having to be a canine nutritionist. Sounded a little like Solid Gold original concept only more so.