And Back To The Nails

[Brooke&Ryan]

Hey All,
I read numerous threds about trimming nails and did not find any that answer my question. Here it is:

I know when trimming a dogs nails you want to show them that it is going to happen no matter if they fight it or not. I can usually get 2-3 nails in one sitting with Julius (one sitting lasts about 10 minutes). I first start with him in lying down on his side and pick up his paw with out the trimmers in hand and massage his paw a little. Then as soon as I get the trimmers near he starts to fight. When does this fight start to hurt him mentally? In other words, does this scar him in anyway since it could seem very tramatic for him. I atleast get two more nails after he starts to fight just to show him that its gonna happen. But recently since he is getting bigger, it is a lot harder to keep him down. I use treats and every time I trim a nail and/or he stays still for a reasonable amount of time. Any thoughts on if this hurts him in anyway? I have read that you should just hold them down and get it over with, and I have also read you should NOT hold them down. What should I do??

Thanks!

Ryan

[Judi W]

This is a serious question. Have you found him to be particularly delicate in his character or intelligence and is that why you are worrying?

You are right, he is not going to get any smaller. If fighting with you means that you quit early, it is a successful action on his part and he has no reason to change.

[Brooke&Ryan]

Julius has allways been a little shy, that is why I am being so carful. I make sure that I atleast get the trimmer on each nail and make the sound of the trimmer atleast to make him think I got it, even if its only the very tip. I have just found myself wanting to hold him down and let somone else trim the nail, but I know that might scare him of the entire process. Should I start trying more times durring the week? What should I do?

Thanks!

[Judy Chrusch]

Brooke, sorry I thought this was covered and you found an answer. Let's see, Czar out of all my rotties was by far the worse one. I am one of those who got into a wrestling match and it took in the beginning 4 people and he still got out of that hold when he wanted too . Now after taking Judi W. advice by doing them weekly NO MATTER WHAT, Oh and I forgot to mention we did this with a muzzle too, now my husband and I do his nails ALONE and with NO muzzle and if he even thinks about an attitude I am ready to push his head to the floor and say ENOUGH!!! You have to know your dogs limits and your own. That's what worked for us and now, we tell him "down", he goes down, no help, no coaxing and he on his own rolls over on his side and we begin:D . This I know is bc Judi W. said it's the thing to do especially if they have attitude. I am the type though where I don't take Czar's crap, he knows I mean business and we will do it anyway from start to finish. Czar ways 116 and of course is very strong and your boy may end up that weight as well, so I urge you to get a hold of things NOW before you have a fight on your hands. Use a command you can use consistently, ENOUGH, SETTLE, THAT'S IT whatever, but use the same each time. If you are beginning to act afraid he will feed on that so do what you have to do to get the job done and do them ALL at ONE time, it will be better in the long run.

Do you use a dremmel or clippers?? As far as holding them down or not holding them down, you have to do what it takes for you and your dog to like I said, get it done where he doesn't think he's won. By doing a few at a time may work for awhile but he will catch on to that real quick and realize he's becoming the boss not you. This isn't what you want with a 100 dog in the end. Hope this answers your question and helps somewhat.

Perhaps our hero Judi W. will give her expert advice as well.

Judy

[cpalenchar]

my limited experience opinion----

on any one "fight", yes the owner should win.

but in general find a way to avoid fights. [this is not mean pander to your dog's every whim.] In this particular case I would figure out a way to retrain him to like his nails being cut. Move towards the goal slowly, treat frequently and train often. I switched to the dremel-- and my dog and I have worked it out. Nail time is not a fight any more. but even with clippers I think you could do it. Have your co-owner at the head, feed some, then clip *a* nail and end the session [assuming everything went *your* way]. Or start even slower than that--- big treat for coming to you when you have the clipper. Big treat for lying on his side and letting you bring the clippers to his toe without pulling back (and without you holding his foot)--- this was a step I had to work on by itself with my dog--- and it helped *a lot* to get just that part down.....

-chloe

[Judi W]

Well, the only thing I would add that has not already been address in the many posts on nails, is that the somewhat shy pup quickly learns to manipulate the sympathetic owner. Personally, I say proceed with the grinding, do it weekly, don't wrestle, but do insist, and he'll get over it. You are asking him to cooperate with you. He will not die from getting his nails done.

When I say don't wrestle, that doesn't mean let him walk away. It means don't get into a rolling around of the floor match. If he starts to get up, you put your hand through the collar and put him back down. Calmly and with meaning. Shaking and wrestling simply gets the dog more worked up. I can live with a certain amount of the foot jerking back and forth as that is a normal reaction. I just hold it against my leg with my left hand and use the Dremel with my right hand.

[Carina43]

Just FIY.

Nail clipping has been a huge issue with Dutch (who is hardly delicate! ) I was doing a couple of nails once or twice a week, and each time was a big power struggle, with Dutch growling and jerking around, me holding him down, and Mick stuffing treats in his face.

Last night, with a little behind the scenes encouragement from Judy Crusch, we muzzled him, I made him go down, and I clipped EVERY SINGLE NAIL. Plus, he didn't get a treat or sweet talk until I was all done, the muzzle was off, and he'd quit glaring at me. He growled and bitched the whole time, and I just ignored him.

HA. I decided to quit pussy-footing around and just do the darned things for once and for all, because every time I heard the click click on the hardwood floors I felt guilty. :o

Tell you what, it felt good to get it done, and he's not one bit traumatized, in fact he got an energetic little run out back afterwards. Daphne is quite shy, and I did the same with her except I didn't use a muzzle; she doesn't get threatening. She was very apprehensive the first few times, but I did it as quickly as I could, now she's used to it and lies quietly.

I'd Just Do It. :)

[samanthac]

Ok. I ahve a regular plug in dremel. But the noise and hte blowing air really agitate Athena. She thinks the damn thing is the devil and cannot get away from it fast enough.

Someone said the cordless dremels are quieter. But which one? The 750 Minimite or the 7700?

Thanks...and sorry if I inadvertantly hijacked this thread. :D

[Judy Chrusch]

Brooke, these examples are why you MUST do what you have to do now, not wait till he's full grown and develops an attitude. He could turn his shy attitude right around and use it to his advantage which is basically what Judi W. said. Get to know YOUR dog, do what works for you to get the whole job done with whatever it is you have to do. I used methods that worked for me and methods that had to be done and if nothing else Czar respects me even though he hates what we do sometimes. I'll tell you one thing, he's an angel at the vets bc we worked on making him stay still and co operate no matter what has to be done to him. They even said he's the most well behaved rottweiler they have:D. That is music to my ears:D . Hopefully enough info has been given and you can resume the nails with minimal problems:) . Let is know how it's going.

Judy

[mmgy]

We're about two months into the Dremel method. Three of five dogs are okay, or sort of okay, with it, two still require 2-person handling. We use the electric, because I'm too cheap to go buy another. But I have a hint that's helped us with the blowing air produced by the electric model.

I've been sitting on the floor, with the dog's back to me, and one of my legs across his neck, the other across his waist. No pressure on the body, but it just kind of shackles them to the floor. It puts your leg between the Dremel and the dog's face, and also restricts forward kicking.

Maybe this will help somebody.

[Judi W]

I use a corded Dremel as I have it as a tool, not just a doggy toenails item. Also, to be honest, I am not patient enough to deal with reduced power as the battery gets low. I do three Rottweilers. I've never noticed that the noise or air???? cause a problem, but then I wouldn't. I don't expect a big deal to be made out of noise and air???? for heavens sake. I think sometimes the owners make a bigger deal out of any reason why the job might be difficult, more so than the dog. Owner looks for reasons why it shouldn't be persued instead of just getting on with the job at hand. The minute an owner starts thinking "oh dear, this is bothering fluffy", the dog picks up on it and starts reacting.

Remember, this is a Rottweiler, who for two cents wouldn't hesitate to drag you down the road - they are not delicate!

[Judy Chrusch]

Sorry Judi but I had to laugh bc I am picturing a rottweiler dragging someone down the street and it looks funny :D . You come up with the good ones and don't sugar coat things:D.

Owners don't realize that when you react to things rottweilers really do tune into that and some take full advantage of that, ummm, I know one like that:D . But no, all kidding aside Rottweilers should not be treated like they're gonna break and their owners can't be softies;) .

Judy

[mmgy]

Guess I should say that at my house, the one that doesn't like the air blowing is the beagle, who quite frankly thinks that having his nails done is an insult to His Princeliness! :D

But blocking the air with a leg or another human seems to take care of it.

[Brooke&Ryan]

Thanks everyone! We had a talk with our trainer about this last night. A yellow lab in our class has been having similar problems. Ryan & I thought that we had the nails down pat. We got Julius into a down & then he rolled onto his side. Ryan snipped the nails while I gave yummy treats & that worked for quite awhile. Now all of a sudden Julius is freaked out by the clippers again.

I totally agree with you Judy. This does need to be resolved now before Julius gets bigger. We don't need to use a muzzle. I don't think that Julius would bite/snap at us. He hasn't ever attempted to before in previous nail clipping episodes. But we will try it again tomorrow night & let ya'll know how it goes. Wish us luck!:D I'm half tempted to buy a dremmel to see how Julius would prefer that. I would hate for him to be putting him though hell when dremmelling might be much easier for him. Who knows.

Also---we use clippers like this for Julius right now. Would it be better to get clippers like this?? Do you prefer one kind over the other? Or are they about the same? The trainer that we have said she thinks the second type are more humane. Not too sure why....

Thanks for all of the responses!
Brooke

[Judi W]

OK, I can't resist this. :D

Number one: Don't "try" to do them, just do them (trying never accomplishes anything)

Number two: You are not putting him through hell, so quit thinking like that. What you are doing is a normal part of grooming. He is the one that is being bratty about it now that he thinks he is soooooo strong.