food journey: what am I looking for???

[mmgy]

It took me nearly 15 years to get from grocery store kibbles, to midline and premium kibbles, to where I now am, using the finest kibbled and canned foods available. I took notes and learned every step of the way, and I saw incredible changes in my dogs--fantastic coats, bright, alert eyes, sassy attitudes, improved health. I pride myself now on being able to look around at a dog show, and win bets on what kind of food a dog eats!

So now we're taking the next steps, slowly (but faster than the last time!!), into raw or partial raw feeding. Aside from the obvious benefits of not feeding processed foods, what am I looking for ?

M2

[BostonRott]

You need to get some of the books and read them.

[rottnkidd]

M2 - I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking what to 'look for' in terms of what types of foods to buy? I'd take BostonRott's suggestion and read as much as you can, join a group where raw feeder's prevail, and ask questions here. A
few of us have been feeding nothing but raw for at least 3 yrs or more. Here's a good link to an article about feeding fresh foods-
http://b-naturals.com/Feb2003.php
And here's some books I recommend. If you don't want to purchase them, many are available at the local libraries.
"The Ultimate Diet: Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" -
(Kymythy Schulthze)
"Give Your Dog a Bone" and/or "The B.A.R.F. Diet" -
(Ian Billinghurst, DVM)
"The Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog"
(Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown)
"The Nature of Animal Healing"
(Martin Goldstein, DVM)
"Raw Meaty Bones"
(Tom Lonsdale, DVM)
"Dr Pitcairn's Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats"
(Richard Pitcairn, DVM)
"Switching to Raw"
(Sue Johnson)
Also, our own Carina will be publishing a book on raw feeding soon! I'm anxiously awaiting!
There are different variations on the 'raw diet'. Some of the authors listed above suggest the use of grains, others are opposed to their use. Dr Lonsdale is an advocate of nothing but feeding raw meaty bones, and that's it! I think reading a number of books, weighing out your options and then determing what would best suit your own dog, based on age, health, and activity level, is the way to go. There are simple guidelines to follow to ensure necessary nutrients are fed, and to keep the diet in balance. By feeding a wide variety, balance is achieved over time, not necessarily in a single meal. I've 'customized' my girl's diet based on her activity, and her likes and dislikes. She's thriving beautifully! Best wishes to you, and be sure to post any questions or concerns. Myself and others feeding raw will be more then happy to help you. Most importantly, be comfortable with what or how to feed, it's your dog and your decision!
kathy

[Carina43]

I'm with Kathy - what exactly is your question...? :) I can't think of books to add to the list...one other place (if you're looking for books) to check is eBay. Also if your library doesn't have them, they can get them for you, most libraries are pretty accomodating that way. Yes, :D I'm writing a book, for Dogwise: http://www.dogwise.com/entry.html?ca...44019&header1=[header1]
I should have a website up soon.

Anyhow, it's like human diets, I think...within a basic framework, there are a great number of ways to feed a dog well. I don't think kibble is the "only right way" and actually I don't think raw is the "only right way" either. I feed some grain & some cooked, like if I have a bunch of extra veggies I'll cook them up for the dogs or whatever. I'm not big on absolutes & rules.
This lady has put a great deal of time into a wonderful website; she discusses all manner of diets:
http://home.attbi.com/~mstraus/index.html
There's some great suggestions on ways to enhance kibble, too.

If you are looking for local suppliers & such, check NO SPAMMING for regional lists. Email me for that info if you need to. I'm on a small Michigan list, we alert each other to store sales and do lots of trading! I've met some real nice people from that group.

OT: Kathy, thanks for posting that Lew Olsen article...she is giving a nutrition seminar in August literally up the street from me at my favourite training place! Only $60, of course I am going. Hey...Ohio is close...I'm only 90 miles from Toledo..;)

[mmgy]

Whoops, that happens to me too much!! I've got a perfect thought formulated,and then the phone rings or something, and I forget half the question. My apologies.

Some of us "super premium kibble" feeders sit around and talk about the great differences we saw in our dogs when we switched to those kibbles, and they improved so much we wonder how much more improvement we can expect. Can I still expect to see visual changes?? What are they?? For instance, how much better can a coat get??

M2

[chris nanney]

I don't know if you'll see it, but a physical change could be that a dog will achieve better body composition (hard, lean and more muscular) through less exercise than would be required to achieve the same body composition feeding kibble.

As that cycle goes, a dog would need more kibble to meet the energy demands of the additional exercise in order to achieve the body composition.

Those that feed raw may be able to give some actual examples of this.

[Carina43]

Hi M2, when I switched from Canidae to raw, I noticed the following:
Spaniel mix finally stopped having anal gland issues, and his chronic ear infection cleared up. He'd only been with me a few months at that point, though.
Phoebe was pretty dramatic,. She was about 12 when I switched diets. She had several skin tags, and a huge (fist sized) beinign tumor that all completely disappeared within 8 weeks of switching. I did not expect that. Also her teeth and breath had always been horrible, despite annual teeth cleanings and raw marrow chew bones. A few months after the diet change, I took her in for her annual check up, shots, etc. My vet asked me where I had taken her to have her teeth cleaned - he noticed the change and thought I'd taken her elsewhere.
In fairness, I have to point out that she now has two skin tags (warty things) again. However she is a 15 year old large mutt, GSDx, and just being alive ather age must be worth something!
Dutch came to me HW+ and in poor shape, so probably any regimen of decent food and love (awww) would have effected a change. His teeth have gone from quite tartar stained to white white, and his overall condition is beautiful. My vet & staff are impressed. :)

I can hold the entire output from the south end of a Rottweiler in the palm of my hand, were I so inclined. :p The poop doesn't attract flies, although the residual bones lying around the dog compound do.

I lost my last Rottie to bone cancer. When I was talking to breeders searching for a new puppy (Cooper, though this wasn't his breeder) who had switched all of her dogs because she was tired of seeing young dogs get cancer; she felt that a raw (or at least a more pure) diet would circumvent that. It made sense to me, and so far I've seen no reason to feed any other way.

So, I don't know. My dogs are very healthy and I get compliments on their teeth, coats, etc. Will you see more improvements? Maybe, maybe not. As I understand, any reasonably balanced high fat diet will yield a really shiny coat. It makes sense that an animal fed a constant daily highly processed diet may not be receiving the optimal diet for any organism; after all how many animals (or people) can you think of that will thrive BEST on a diet completely devoid of fresh, real food...? I've collected vintage dog books for some time - I have quite a collection - and none prior to about 1970 advocate a totally commercial diet. The notion that little processed pellets are the best 100% diet for any living thing is a little weird, seems to me. I've had tropical fish for years, any fish book will tell you that feeding small live fish to big live fish is the best way to feed them! (Bones and all. :))

And, to add to Chris' comment about a good diet building muscle instead of fat & bulk, well, I agree. Most dogs are fat, or in poor condition. Is it diet, or just lazy owners...?
If you have not read "Dogs, Diet, and Disease" by Caroline. D. Levin, you need to!
:)

[mmgy]

We've seen all those improvements just by using great kibble for nearly four years: no more ear, skin or coat issues, no more colitis, anal glands, muscle definition, fatty tumor reduction, etc. My brittanys, who have been raised this way, are built like little pit bulls! Particularly, watching Chalice run is an awesome lesson in kinesiology.

I guess I'm just looking for a visible way to mark the transition. We're not going exclusively to raw, at least not for a good while, except possibly with one dog (Delilah). I'd like to have a marker to show me I'm doing the right thing, the right way. But thank you Carina, for mentioning Phoebe (BTW, hope she's doing well!!!;) ), because if I look to my two eldest, one has not-too-great teeth, and the other is sort of a lumpy, bumpy dog. I had been thinking I'd see changes in the younger dogs, but now I think the elders are more likely to show visible changes.

M2

[mmgy]

Forgot to say thanks..........y'all have listed a few books I haven't seen before............

Carina, I couldn't get your link to take me anywhere but the home page...........

M2

[Carina43]

Oh - the DogWise link was to their home page, I'm a dork and don't have a website yet. :p

That darn Phoebe won't die, haha. She is doing fine, and she can even walk most of the time. We think she had a stroke (or the doggie equivalent) because she got quite deaf like overnight, and seems sort of goofy and more content. She'll probably live to be about 20 and then I'll feel really silly for going out and actually digging a grave for her!

I say, you have little to lose introducing some raw. It's easy for me & others who have fed non-kibble :) for some time to say that because it seems like such a leap! But the notion of feeding kibble seems really odd to me now. Give it a try for a couple of months and see how your dogs do!