How to build the weight?

[Hope]

OK, my boy is barfed. He will be 3 next month. Just had his final x-rays done and blood panels, he is in tip top shape.

My problem is that with BARF, I find it very difficult to keep the weight on him. He is fairly active, plenty of exercise, and seems to eat like a moose, yet his weight just seems too low. He weighed in at 105 the other day, and I imagine he is up a little from that right now. He looks really large, but is pretty much only muscle - but if I don't keep up large portions of food, he drops his weight quickly. His thyroid came back as normal as well.

For barfers, are there any tips for keeping weight up? I would love to give him oatmeal but he does not care for it, but eats plenty of pasta and rice. He is currently consuming around 4 large (foot long) turkey bones/day + carbs/fish every evening and little of his veggie/fruit mix. He gets organ meat once a week and raw eggs as well + marrow bones etc. Geez, he eats like a horse.

I certainly have the opposite problem than most, and I know Mondo has more time to grow, just wondering what people feed (barf) to maintain or increase weight on dogs with high metabolisms. I dont' want my dog to be some fat blob, just to work up to a weight that is better for him so he is not so lanky and thin looking. I know he is not fully grown and will need to fill out, but I think 115 would be perfect, and his hips/elbows should take that as a healthy weight.

I have been told that his conformation may be due to his father's side of the family in terms of his large structure/muscular and trim look versus the stocky look of most rottweilers. And I understand the role of genetics in his final conformation, but I feel like I don't have the correct weight/food ratio correct. Any suggests? (no oatmeal - he hates it)

[rottnkidd]

Hi Hope - My girl is also raw fed, very active, and she'll be 3 the end of April. I keep her lean and think in the long run this is the best we can do to protect stress to the joints, and hopefully prevent problems down the road. She maintains a wt of 95#, and is fed 2.5-3# of fresh food a daily. This includes 2 meals and
her recreational snack bones. It's become very apparent in the past few months that she's really starting to 'thicken' up beautifully.
You stated he's "pretty much all muscle"...well that's great! My girl is all muscle too, with incredible definition, and a great tuck. Seeing a pic of your boy would be great, then we'd have a better idea if he needs wt or not. 105# sounds ideal to me for a male. Do you feed chicken for rmbs? If so, be sure to leave the skin on. Turkey is fine, but it's generally skinless. If you want to maintain the wt, or add a couple of lbs., feed fattier cuts of meat for the meat meals; like the cheaper ground beef, or lamb is great for putting wt on. I feed ground lamb or lamb stew, and use riblets or neckbones for 'snacks' during the week. Canned salmon or mackerel are good fish choices. Ground pork, pork neckbones or pork brisket are some other suggestions. Also, you can use plain, whole milk yogurt, cottage cheese or ricotta as additions to his food. Carina feeds her guys alot of whole rabbit, but I'm not sure of the fat content. I know venison is really lean and needs fat added if fed regularly. I'm just curious...any reason you only feed organ meat once a wk? Best wishes and let us know how he does!
kathy

[Aegis]

If you're BARF'ing he's probably at an optimum weight already. Bigger/heavier isn't always better.

However, if you really feel that he's somewhat underweight, these are great not only for putting weight on but for the shine it puts on their coats as well.

Satin Balls:

10 lbs. raw hamburger meat (20% fat)
1 large box of Total cereal
1 large container of oatmeal
1 jar of wheat germ (15 oz. jar)
1 1/4 cup vegetable oil
1 1/4 cup unsulfured molasses
10 packets of unflavored gelatin
10 raw eggs
pinch of unrefined, unprocessed sea salt

Form into meatballs (somewhere between the size of a racquetball and a baseball) and freeze until you need it.

Recommended: One at breakfast or lunchtime.

[Carina43]

Hi Hope...can you see all your dog's ribs, or is he just naturally lanky? My dogs eat raw too...Daphne is naturally very lean, when she's in motion I can see her ribs quite easily. She's had all the usual check ups, she's very healthy - that's just the way she is. Cooper on the other hand will gain weight just looking at food, he eats less than Daphne - she's 70lbs, he's about 105.

I do feed quite a bit of rabbit, it's quite lean & good for Cooper & my very old dog. Daphne won't touch it though. Because she likes to play outside a lot & it's very cold here now, I find I can feed her lots of chicken backs with all the fat on, and pork neckbones too. She has virtually no undercoat - either because of that, or all the fat she gets, her coat is blindingly glossy.

It seems that what you're feeding is fairly low in fat - can you add pork, beef ribs (I buy those wholesale & feed them in slabs), fatty chicken...? I tried feeding more carbs - oatmeal & even slices of wheat bread added to the other stuff - to Daphne last winter, but it seemed to give her a little pot belly without bulking her up! My dogs all are quite lean and have excellent muscle, none of them have that thick-bodied look one sees so often. Since none are show dogs or anything, I don't mind as long as they are healthy! I get a full blood panel done on them annually, Daphne just had hers.

I have a friend with a Great Dane who had some sort of pancreatic problem & could not keep weight on. She switched to raw, and added a modified version of satin balls to her Dane's diet & the dog gained 20lbs and has been at the same good healthy weight now for a year.

But on the whole I wouldn't worry...if he's healthy, leaner is better. :)

[Skip]

How tall is he? If he's within the standard, 105 sounds good. Always better healthwise to be trim, but 105 doesn't sound too trim to me unless he's too tall.

[spidey]

If you're BARF'ing he's probably at an optimum weight already.

How so? Surely if she's not feeding him enough calories he could easily be underweight? Not that he necessarily is, of course (leaner is better, within reason), but I don't see how BARF is any different than any other diet in this respect: if you feed too few calories, the dog will be too thin.

Hope, why does his weight seem too low to you? Unless his ribs and hips are sticking out, leaner is better, and he SHOULD be only muscle. Actual weight isn't the issue, really, it's whether he's got the right amount of flesh for his size, which is based on appearance, not weight. Here's a chart which shows different appearances and how they correlate to condition: http://www.placervillevet.com/canine...0condition.htm

[Aegis]

Just had his final x-rays done and blood panels, he is in tip top shape.
He weighed in at 105 the other day, and I imagine he is up a little from that right now. He looks really large, but is pretty much only muscle - but if I don't keep up large portions of food, he drops his weight quickly. His thyroid came back as normal as well. He is currently consuming around 4 large (foot long) turkey bones/day + carbs/fish every evening and little of his veggie/fruit mix. He gets organ meat once a week and raw eggs as well + marrow bones etc. Geez, he eats like a horse.

Seems pretty healthy to me. Seems like he’s eating plenty of food, also. The only things I would cut out would be the grains.
I would think that a “thin” or “overweight” dog wouldn’t have been considered in “tip top shape”, do you?

Most owners, not all, but most, generally tend to keep their dogs heavier than they should be and think their dog, based on appearance, is “thin” at it’s ideal weight. A muscular dog without excess weight to me is optimal.

Perhaps I should have said…”Considering what you’re feeding…” instead. Yes, I think that might have been more appropriate.

[laurlitt]

I was just looking at Mondo's diet... and although I'm no expert and there are many variations of Natural diets... I was under the impression to keep carbs out (pasta and rice)... and if you are feeding fish daily then maybe that's too light of a meal for him. Here's an example of what I feed my two dogs over a week's time (14 meals)
1-2 meals veggie combo (veggies, offal, ground meat, supplements)
1 meal fish
11-12 meals Raw Meaty Bones.

My guess is that if you back off on fish daily and add some more meals of RMB that you might add some weight. But, (without seeing him) I think 105 sounds fine and wouldn't push for more weight... but each dog is different. I'd also expect that at 3 years of age he shouldn't be growing much more...

[Hope]

I really appreciate all the replies. Though most who feed raw don't feed carbs, I don't mind feeding pasta, rice, oatmeal (if he would eat more of it).

From the chart that was provided, I would still say that the dog is slightly underweight. Though I see a lot of definition, and I certaily can't complain about his muscular build, I can't help but feel as though he looks a little "boney" - and I have to agree that it may be from a lack of fat in his diet. I feed turkey necks which don't have any skin at all, but he does get mack/or salmon every day.

Another problem I have is that he won't overfeed - i.e. - our other garbage pants Baily will eat everything in sight. Mondo will eat an alotted amount and stops, he won't gorge himself. So increasing his food is difficult as well.

I really should show a picture of him to explain. I believe his conformation is correct, he is a little on the taller side. Couple his frame with his metabolism and I feel like it is a constant battle to keep the pounds up. If he misses a meal, I can see it in his frame! That is how sensitive his weight change can be.

I certainly will take the consensus advice to add more fat to his diet. I do not care for Chicken products, and Mondo hates chicken. He eats most of everything else, but no chicken and I don't mind because I have second thoughts about the hormones in the skin of chicken. He already gets lots of fish, I am thinking about increasing things like the yogurts, eggs, he likes those products. Maybe the fat in such products can pack on the pounds a little more.

I am not one to feel as though my boy should be some obese animal that can barely walk up the back steps. But at the same time, I don't like the underfed look and I am wondering if the ratio is not correct despite his panels coming back as perfectly normal. Just to give an idea, Baily, my sister's mix, weighs in around 55 pounds, and is a little cow. I remember a time when we called him burrito boy because he looked like one when you looked down on him. Baily is just half of Mondo's size, yet eats 3/4 less of the raw diet to maintain his weight. It seems to vary so much dog to dog, and I can't help but feel that Mondo's diet for the moment is not perfect.

I will add the more fatty foods and see what happens - I will advise. Thank you all for your intelligent observations and advice.

[spoiled_rott]

[i]

Satin Balls:

10 lbs. raw hamburger meat (20% fat)
1 large box of Total cereal
1 large container of oatmeal
1 jar of wheat germ (15 oz. jar)
1 1/4 cup vegetable oil
1 1/4 cup unsulfured molasses
10 packets of unflavored gelatin
10 raw eggs
pinch of unrefined, unprocessed sea salt

Form into meatballs (somewhere between the size of a racquetball and a baseball) and freeze until you need it.

Recommended: One at breakfast or lunchtime. [/b]

This recipe sounds really good even good enough for me to eat :D . How would you recommend supplementing this to my dog's regular 2 cups of Canidae twice a day? Should I give him a cup less during each feeding? Or should I just add a Satin ball in addition his regular feedings? My Rotty is 8 months old today:) and he's almost 70 lbs. I just don't want him to get fat. He's in really good shape and starting to show nice muscle tone. I take him to the local dog park every other day and he gets tons of exercise playing with his buddies.

thanks...

[laurlitt]

Spoiled Rotten...
If your 8 month old puppy is in good shape I would not recommend adding these to his diet. I have used these before for shelter dogs who were stressed and all skin and bones... within one week the dogs looked healthy again... so they do put on weight VERY quickly... so if your dog doesn't need it... I wouldn't suggest it...

With a puppy, if he seems to be a bit underweight, I'd add another cup of food first.

Just my opinion.