Ester C and calcium worries

[rottlove]

Hi, I just realized that the Ester C I was giving Viva for her heart murmur and for OCD surgery recovery is calcium ascorbate. Now, there IS a link with OCD and calcium supplements. Could I have contributed to her OCD with the Ester-C form of calcium? I know better than to give a pup calcium but I guess I did without knowing it.

If so, I don't think Ester C should ever be recommended for a puppy.

Anybody know about this stuff?

[CarolineS]

You are right in that calcium ascorbate (Ester-C) will be metabolized in the body like calcium. It does act like a calcium supplement and should be avoided in large-breed puppies (from Feeding Your Dog for Life by Diane Morgan, p. 57).

Whether or not it contributed to your dog's OCD would be entirely dependant on how much was fed and what age it was given. Before about 7 months of age, puppies will absorb almost all the calcium they are given. As they mature, their bodies develop a mechanism that allows them to absorb only as much calcium as they need and get rid of the excess. This happens whether the calcium comes in the form of raw bones or in the form of a calcium supplement.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find anything to indicate in mg how much would need to be fed to contribute to OCD. All I could find was a dietary percentage of dry matter fed which doesn't easily translate into mg/day, at least not to my math-challenged mind.

This was a good point to bring our attention and one that is very important for owners of Rottie puppies.

[Ilovemypuppy]

According to Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health For Dogs...he says "be sure to include plenty of bonemeal. Don't succumb to the fallacy that too much calcium in the diet causes this problem"...referring to hip dysplasia and other growth related structural problems. He also recommends large does of Vitamin C. Ester C is calcium bound vitamin C....easier on sensitive stomachs and the amount of calcium in a supplement like this would be negligible.
http://www.arkanar.minsk.by/medicine..._Dogs_Cats.htm
http://www.drpitcairn.com/

[CarolineS]

I couldn't get your first link to work. I went to the home page and followed links to the page that sells books. Was there an article somewhere that you quoted from or is this just a site that sells Dr. Pitcairn's book?

I read Dr. Pitcairn's article on calcium supplementation in the link you provided. The ratio he recommends is higher than the ratio recommended by the National Research Council, AAFCO and scores of other nutritional books I've read. Pitcairn recommends a 2:1 ratio of calcium to phosphorus. Optimum is 1.3:1.

I take it that the quote you've used about bonemeal comes from his book? I don't see it anywhere in the article. What is the context that this statement is taken out of? It is very true that dogs need a lot more calcium than people, so is this what he is referring to when he says not to be worried about using lots of bonemeal? Or is he suggesting that you use more calcium than the NRC recommends for growing dogs?

If it is the latter, then I would certainly question this statement. There have been numerous studies done that prove that oversupplementation with calcium causes many bone-related problems. It is true that excess calcium does not, in and of itself, cause hip dysplasia, the genetic component has to be there. Excess calcium will certainly have a profound effect on its development though. Studies have also shown that large-breed puppies fed excess calcium have a greatly increased risk of OCD, bone deformities and joint problems. High levels of calcium can also cause zinc, copper, iron and phosphorus deficiencies.

One 1000 mg tablet of Ester-C contains on average 125 mg of calcium ascorbate. Supplementing with a tablet daily probably wouldn't have any effect on a growing large-breed puppy, but I sure as heck wouldn't be using "large doses" of it.

I think you need to quote some numbers on the amount of calcium your sources recommend...they may well be in the safe range as dogs do require a lot of calcium. I don't think, though, that it is safe to just take the statements of "not being scared to feed lots of bonemeal" and to "supplement with large doses of Ester-C" at face value.