Had to Switch off of Canidae

[Diamond Dog]

I am keeping my 8 year old on Canidae. She never used to like to eat, then I got another puppy and she finishes everytime (competition, if she wont eat it, he will!). I couldnt understand why she wasnt getting fat (from eating a lot more than she used to), now it makes sense (read on).

My 15 week old is only 27 lbs. He is considerably smaller than his brothers & sisters. He didnt start out that way. He eats about 3.5 cups of Canidae a day. 3 feedings a day + fresh veggie slaw and cooked livers at evening meal.

Canidae is not that high in protein, fat content, or calories. While this may be ideal for an older dog (7-8 months and older) I believe that this is not ideal for puppies.

Switched him over to Bill Jack puppy. I know it has corn in it, but I called them and they said they process the corn differently than everyone else so that it is usable and a good source of energy. They claim their food has more meat in it than any other brand. The fat and protein are considerably higher than Canidae.

There is something in this food that makes dogs go nuts. All 3 dogs I have had, including this pup go crazy for it. My pup will eat it before he eats boiled chicken meat & livers (which he loves). Any kibble that makes dogs eat it first before the fresh meat when placed together is amazing to me.

I hope to get my pup on back on Canidae in a few months as i really think its a great food for non-puppy applications.

Anyone else concerned with giving Canidae to growing puppies?

[chris nanney]

I wouldn't be worried about feeding Canidae to growing pups as it has more calories than most puppy foods I've seen.

Guaranteed analysis on Bil Jac Select is 27 protein/17 fat with 408 calories per 8oz cup. Bil Jac puppy is a 28/18 food with 421 calories per 8oz cup.

Canidae is a 24/14.5 food with 466 calories per 8oz cup. Most of the puppy foods I've seen have around 380 calories per cup and most maintenance adult formulas have around 340.

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

The ingredient list for Bil Jac puppy food:

Fresh Chicken, Fresh Chicken By-Products (Organ Meat Only), Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Fresh Chicken Liver, Brewers Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Eggs, Salt, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Inositol, BHA (a preservative), Iron Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodine, Sodium Selenite.

--- I always heard that if you see corn as one of the first three (or five?) ingredients, the food is not that good, since corn is the cheapest protein source out there and not that great for dogs. I don't know why the way corn is "processed" should make a difference - sounds like one of those "check is in the mail" statements to me.

[Tazwick]

The amount of salt would also have me thinking...

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

I just noticed there is "cane molasses" as an ingredient...isn't that the same as sugar? I've never seen it before so just wondered.

[Tazwick]

I seen that too after I posted as well Sophie&BuddiesMom...

I have heard of people using "molasses" to put weight on their dogs...don't know how true it is, I have never tried it. Maybe it is a filler they use...I don't know.

I too would be worried about the sugar...

[Soapie&Buddy'sMom]

I got interested in cane molasses after seeing it in this list of ingredients, and here is some information I found on it:

"Some companies sneak sugar into pet food to hook your pet.

Watch out for these guys! They call it other things of course... (cane molasses, corn syrup) but it absolutely does not belong in your pet's food bowl. Processed sugars are foreign to dogs and cats and over the long term can result in obesity, tooth decay and diabetes (along with other maladies). Until 2 years ago, propylene glycol was being used as a sweet tasting preservative by those who must have cared much more about shelf life than about pet health. Thankfully, it has finally been banned. Pet food companies will tell you that the industry is tightly regulated and that your pet's health is being fastidiously protected. Do you buy that one? The FDA can't even keep up with human food and didn't lift a finger on behalf of the pet owners during the ethoxyquin debate. The regulating body for pet food ingredients is AAFCO. The American Association of Feed Control Officials. The rules and definitions they adopt are made by those with vested interests and are enforced through "voluntary compliance". The fox guards the rabbit hutch here."


From Innova's website of "ingredients we never use"

Cane Molasses



Cane molasses is a by-product of the manufacture of sucrose from sugar cane. It must contain not less than 43% total sugars expressed as invert.


Natura adds no sugar to our formulas. Any sugar in our foods is derived from the 'natural' fruits and vegetables in them.


Not Approved: Natura does not use this ingredient in any of our products.


____________

Diamond Dog no wonder your dogs like this stuff! It's like feeding candy to a toddler!

[lblax]

Originally posted by Diamond Dog
I am keeping my 8 year old on Canidae. She never used to like to eat, then I got another puppy and she finishes everytime (competition, if she wont eat it, he will!). I couldnt understand why she wasnt getting fat (from eating a lot more than she used to), now it makes sense (read on).

My 15 week old is only 27 lbs. He is considerably smaller than his brothers & sisters. He didnt start out that way. He eats about 3.5 cups of Canidae a day. 3 feedings a day + fresh veggie slaw and cooked livers at evening meal.

Canidae is not that high in protein, fat content, or calories. While this may be ideal for an older dog (7-8 months and older) I believe that this is not ideal for puppies. (you dont want to much protein or fat you need your pup to be slim and trim)

Switched him over to Bill Jack puppy. I know it has corn in it, but I called them and they said they process the corn differently than everyone else so that it is usable and a good source of energy. They claim their food has more meat in it than any other brand. The fat and protein are considerably higher than Canidae.( bull!!!!!!!!! corn is corn corn gluten is easy to digest than regular corn but still corn)

There is something in this food that makes dogs go nuts. All 3 dogs I have had, including this pup go crazy for it. My pup will eat it before he eats boiled chicken meat & livers (which he loves). Any kibble that makes dogs eat it first before the fresh meat when placed together is amazing to me.(its the extra fat fat is tasty )

I hope to get my pup on back on Canidae in a few months as i really think its a great food for non-puppy applications.

Anyone else concerned with giving Canidae to growing puppies?

you dont want to much protein or fat you need your pup to be slim and trim) bull!!!!!!!!! corn is corn corn gluten is easy to digest than regular corn but still corn) .(its the extra fat fat is tasty )

[DixieGrl113]

Just a thought but if your puppy was actually looking thin, I would have started feeding more than 3.5 cups per day. I feed BARF but when I have to feed Wellness on occasion, I feed my 1yr old pup and my 3 adults 4 cups a day plus their chicken at the evening meal. With your pup that young and probably getting ready to go into a major growth spurt (if not already) I would cut down on the veggie slaw &livers and increase the Canidae. If however your pup does not look thin and just seems on the smaller side, let him be. They all grow at different rates and you never know how big their gonna be until their done growing. Beau has grown very slowly and i thought he would never get to be as tall as my other 3. But, you want them to grow as slowly as possible while still maintaining optimal health. :)

Just a little FYI...if you put down a bowl of Wellness Super5 Mix in front of any of my 4 and sit a bowl of RMB's or Veggie glop w/fish (2 of their favorites) right next to it, I can GUARANTEE you they will head for the Wellness EVERY time. They love it, its like a bowl full of treats for them. For that reason, Bill Jac's guarantee doesn't mean squat to me. But, I wouldn't be able to feed that food (bill jac) because one of my girls is very sensitive to corn, no matter how its processed. I'm ok with that because corn doesn't do anything for them except give them more to deposit in the yard because it goes out just like it came in, useless and undigested. ;) Remember that the guaranteed protein levels in the analysis is useless if the protein source does not have a high biological value. Even though the protein levels on the bag of Canidae might be lower than that of Bill Jac, your dog is able to use and assimilate more of the protein from Canidae than Bill Jac because of the source(s) of the protein. Alot of dog food companies use plant proteins to count towards the final number. That includes corn and other fillers. Plant protein has a lower biological value than that of a meat source. Egg of course having the highest value. The variety of meat sources in canidae also help you make sure you have the different Amino Acids covered in the dogs diet. I hope that makes sense and helps you out a little bit! :)

[SRipplinger]

Hi - this post caught my attention because Angel has been fed Canidae from day one. I have gone by the instructions on their bag and website. Angel turned 6 months Mar 29th and last week weighed 49 lbs at the vet before going to the Perry, GA show. I feed 3 cups a day like the directions say, however they say to cut this in half after they reach 6 months which I have not done. I got her to the show in Perry and the first thing my handler said was she was underweight!!! and she needed some substance to her more than anything. Needless to say she was the tiniest one in the ring even with pups a little younger than her. Theres no way I can drop her to half that feeding like Canidae instructs???
I have bumped her to 5 cups a day to see what happens. Please let me know if anyone thinks this is incorrect or what?

Thanks

[GenHannibal]

Feeding instructions are suppose to be guidelines, not what you actually would feed your dog. Each puppy & adult have different needs, they should be fed accordingly. Also, when doing confirmation shows, the tendency is to have more substance than if you were doing "working" type shows. That is not to say that your puppy wasn't on the thin side Three cups at six months sounds low especially, if your puppy is extremely active. My eight year old had to be fed 3 times a day- with 2 1/2-3 cups a feeding, when he was at that age (6 mos-plus). And, the kibble was of the highest quality. At the same time, my other rotties only needed 4-5 cups a day, at that same age.

[Judy Chrusch]

Shannon, just be careful not to up the amount too much too soon. Since you were giving 3 before why not try 2 in the a.m. and 2 at supper, see how that goes and perhaps you can add a couple spoonfuls of canned, if not Canidae maybe Innova, also a great food. Keep an eye on her weight and don't add too much too fast, JMO. Not every food is for every dog, some gain too much on Canidae and some don't gain enough and some dogs just aren't meant to be big. If over a period of time she's eating and not really gaining perhaps there's something else going on and maybe even worms, just a thought.

Judy

[lblax]

Originally posted by SRipplinger
Hi - this post caught my attention because Angel has been fed Canidae from day one. I have gone by the instructions on their bag and website. Angel turned 6 months Mar 29th and last week weighed 49 lbs at the vet before going to the Perry, GA show. I feed 3 cups a day like the directions say, however they say to cut this in half after they reach 6 months which I have not done. I got her to the show in Perry and the first thing my handler said was she was underweight!!! and she needed some substance to her more than anything. Needless to say she was the tiniest one in the ring even with pups a little younger than her. Theres no way I can drop her to half that feeding like Canidae instructs???
I have bumped her to 5 cups a day to see what happens. Please let me know if anyone thinks this is incorrect or what?

Thanks

i would follow the instructions but more important how does she look in my opinion 49 lbs for that age of dog is certainly not under weight if she would continue her normal growth at the same rate as now that would put her at 100 lbs at a year old with another year to grow she would be a very large female over the standard. you want them to have a lean look till there bones develope. then let them fill out i think 5 cups of canidae would be way too much

[myrottie_chyna]

Chyna will be five months on the 25th. She weighed 43 lbs a week and a half ago. I have been feeding her 4 1/2 cups of Canidae for about three weeks now, just up from 3 3/4 cups. In another two weeks I will incease to 5 cups. I dont go by the bag, I go by how she looks, and how active she is. I think Canidae is just a tad short on the calories for puppies. I also put a 1/2 teaspoon of olive oil in her food three times a week, and an egg twice a week. You can boost up the calorie content by adding some extra ingredients.

[myrottie_chyna]

Good advice Judy, on the worm thing!!! Chyna kept getting thin when she was 10-12 weeks old. It ended up being Tapeworms.
Once those were treated she gained/grew with a vengance!!
Get the pup checked for worms as soon as possible. That may be the culprit!