Bill Jac Vs. Canidae?

[Harley Z]

My Rott Harley is 11 weeks and weighing in at 25 pounds. He's healthy, well proportioned, has a definite waist and ribs are easily felt. I started him out on Pedigree Puppy (stupid I know) for about 3-4 days until I read some posts here and learned a bit about the whole corn problem. I then began mixing in Eukanuba Puppy for Large Breeds (not the best but couldn't find Canidae) in with the Pedigree but he didn't seem to like the Eukanuba as he ate around it. I quickly bought some Bill Jac and have been mixing it with the other in progressively greater amounts as I am slowly weening him off the Eukanuba/Pedigree mix. He's eating better and really likes the Bill Jac.

From all the posts it appears that Canidae is the choice of just about everyone. I have seen a few that also say Bill Jac is a quality food. I notice that Canidae lists meals(chicken, turkey, lamb, etc....) as the top ingredients. It was my impression that meals generally means "parts of." Is this not the case or is it just not the case with Canidae? Bill Jac lists main ingredients as chicken, chicken-by-products (organ meat only), corn (ahhh), and chicken by-products meal. And what do they mean by chicken!

What if any is the difference between by-products and meals? Is Bill Jac just a higher priced supermarket type brand of food or is it better than that? Your thoughts, knowledge and explinations would be greatly appreciated and are in need here.

Thanks,
Adam

[Tri-Star]

Chicken meal is chicken with the water removed. So you are getting more meat than chicken. Chicken listed on the ingredients includes the water. So pound for pound chicken meal is better.

I would stay away from the by-product meal as you dont know what the by-products are. Corn is another thing to avoid if possible. Also Bil-Jac is not naturally preserved.

[Rajah'sMom]

What is the best store bought food? We've been using Pro Plan large breed puppy. Our vet had told us to stick to it because Rajah is doing so well. I found a website that list all brands and the ingredients and nutrient anaylas. ProPlan was listed with Canidae and Innova and others for the ones with no preservatives. What's the deal? Which is best? Also has anyone read the book "Aninmal Nutrition"? It says too much protein can cause liver and kidney failure.

[RottiMomCT]

Originally posted by Rajah'sMom
What is the best store bought food? We've been using Pro Plan large breed puppy. Our vet had told us to stick to it because Rajah is doing so well. I found a website that list all brands and the ingredients and nutrient anaylas. ProPlan was listed with Canidae and Innova and others for the ones with no preservatives. What's the deal? Which is best? Also has anyone read the book "Aninmal Nutrition"? It says too much protein can cause liver and kidney failure.

I think any food that is widely available (in supermarkets, chain stores, etc) will probably be manufactured using lower quality ingredients. I mean, if you've gotta make 100,000 lbs of dog food a week, you'll use the cheapest stuff you can because that's ALOT of food! If you're a dog food company that only sells to specific locations, you'll be able to do a few things differently: use better quality ingredients, use fewer or no fillers-such as grains, corn, etc., and you'll be able to produce the food without preservatives.

If Rajah is doing well on Pro-Plan, by all means, keep feeding it! I'll tell people, feed what you can afford, and if you can feed better, good for you (and the dog)! Don't go broke feeding your dogs (although I know alot of us would!), just because you've been told one food is better than another.

YES, there are better foods than pro-Plan, but why change if he's doing well?

[Rajah'sMom]

I think we are paying just as much for the ProPlan as we would for Canidae or Innova. It costs us $35 for a 37.5lb. bag. I don't mind paying more if it would benefit my pup. Innova is just meats and veggies, right? That sounds good to me. I just want to know how one can be better than the other if they all end up with the same nutritional values. The ProPlan has 28% protein, 13% fat, 6% fiber, 12% moisture, 1.1% calcium, 0.8% phosphorus, and 1.6% linoleic acid. So even though the nutitional analys is good, it's not a good food because it has fillers in it??? I don't understand.

[pride-and-joy]

Originally posted by RottiMomCT


I'll tell people, feed what you can afford, and if you can feed better, good for you (and the dog)! Don't go broke feeding your dogs (although I know alot of us would)

Finances have been real tight over the last year. The groceries for humans have sometimes consisted of Ramen noodles, generic mac and cheese, tomato soup, grilled cheese and cheap beer.

But the staple for the dogs is still Canidae.

It's not worth getting their systems all out of whack.

Ramen doesn't give us the runs, eye goop and dandruff.....but grocery store dog food sure does a number on the canines of the family

[DixieGrl113]

Rajah'sMom, the difference is in the ingredient quality and quantity. If you were to feed a food based on the guarenteed analysis, you could feed Old Roy and be ok. The source that protein, fat etc comes from is the important thing. The reason so many people recommend foods like Canidae, Innova, Wellness, etc.. is because the ingredients are human grade with no chemicals and do not include by-products or fillers corn or wheat for example. Dogs need a diet consisting of mostly meat with veggies and other things to balance it out. Its the overall quality of the ingredients, and quantity of those ingredients that make the quality of food. Its like you being able to meet all your nutrional requirments from McDonald's food or meeting/exceeding them with a good wholesome meal. (with real meat not just pressed beaks and feet) You could survive on both but, you wouldn't thrive on a diet consisting of entirely of garbage like fast food. Does that make any sense? I choose to by pass the dog food process entirely and feed BARF. But that diet is not for everyone or every dog. I hope I shed a little light on it for you. Hopefully one of our dog food experts will pick up this thread...in the mean time this will bump it to the top.

One more thing about protein. A healthy dog can handle a good deal of protein. Its good for them. They need protein. Unless you are feeding an extreme amount of protein, I don't think it would be the cause of liver or kidney failure. (again, in a healthy dog) I hope German or WorkinDogz picks this up, they can offer more on that subject.

[K9-man]

02/06/2002 9:36 PM CST

Pro Plan doesn’t even come close to the quality of Canidae or Innova.

If you can get Innova or Canidae for the same price as Pro Plan by all means forget about the Pro Plan.

[Rajah'sMom]

I'm so sold on Innova now that I just chunked 33 pounds of ProPlan in the trash and bought Innova. I just wish I hadn't recently purchased the ProPlan. I just found this website a week ago. I'm so glad I did. Thank you all for posting such good informative advice.

[K9-man]

You could of put it out for the birds - they love dog kibble :)

[Harley Z]

I have found a Canidae seller close to home so I will give it a try. I'll post a follow up to update Harley's thought on his new food. I just hope he'll begin to stay out of the cat's food. Thanks for the all the info in your posts.

[Roscoe's dad]

Originally posted by Rajah'sMom
I'm so sold on Innova now that I just chunked 33 pounds of ProPlan in the trash and bought Innova. I just wish I hadn't recently purchased the ProPlan.

The local shelters would have taken a food donation.

[Rajah'sMom]

The bag was already opened so they said they couldn't take it. I didn't think they would, but I called to ask anyway.:(

[ILVROTTIS]

hi everyone, i have also been indecisive about this food, i couldn't find it anywhere then someone told me about their website (thank you) and its 31.00, for a 40 pd bag, thats less than what we pay for eukanuba, which is what mia is currently on. (shes not crazy about it) sometimes we have to put it in our hands for her to eat.. well the question i have is i didn't see a puppy formula, don't puppies need things in their diet that older dogs don't need???? please help, i think im sold on this food, but am kinda confused. i can relate to pride and joy, my husband got laid-off temporarly and i just got downsized in my job so right now i don't have a job...but still nothing is stopping me...nothing but the best for my little mia....

[CarolineS]

Originally posted by Rajah'sMom
I just want to know how one can be better than the other if they all end up with the same nutritional values. The ProPlan has 28% protein, 13% fat, 6% fiber, 12% moisture, 1.1% calcium, 0.8% phosphorus, and 1.6% linoleic acid. So even though the nutitional analys is good, it's not a good food because it has fillers in it??? I don't understand.

Grains (corn, wheat, rice) are not useless fillers; they do have protein in them. Where the problem arises is that a dog's digestive system is not designed for grain, so they cannot fully utilize this protein. Proteins have something called a biological value which is a number value assigned to describe how fully the protein can be used. The biological value for most grains (with respect to dogs) is between 50 and 60 (optimum is 100). The biological value for most meats is around 80.

Corn is the grain with the highest amount of protein in it which is why you so often see it near the top of the list on a dog food bag. It is also very cheap, so a manufacturer makes more money from a food with a lot of corn in it than one with a lot of meat in it. If a dog can only digest 50% of the protein in corn, you have to feed a whole bunch more corn-based food than you would meat-based just to supply the dog with the required levels of protein. You end up feeding more calories leading to problems with obesity, not too mention the extra you have to clean up in the yard.

Apart from the protein, there are a range of amino acids that dogs need for health. Some of these amino acids are manufactured within the dog's body, but others must come from food. Meat provides all the amino acids necessary, plant proteins do not. A food that is primarily grain will always have a little cheap meat by-product thrown in for that purpose.

It's not to say that a dog cannot survive on ProPlan, obviously millions do. You just end up feeding more of the food and spending more money in the long run. Since grain-based foods are produced with an eye to the most profit possible, you also find that the ingredients quite often are not as wholesome as some of the better foods and that they contain more chemical preservatives.