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Natural Diets Raw and Cooked "Please post your questions about both raw and cooked fresh food diets for your Rottweiler in this subforum. Learn about nutrient requirements, how to introduce a diet change, tips on finding fresh food sources, etc."

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  #1  
Old 07-31-2009, 07:14 PM
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Combining raw and kibble

I have read through this forum and I think I understand what any replies may be, but I thought I would put my specific question out there anyway...

Reading BARF material, they say DO NOT feed kibble with raw, because of different digestive rates. This being so, and I know people out there are doing it, if I want to do a combo, should one meal be raw and the other kibble only and if so, which one when? Or is it ok to, say, one raw and the other part raw and part kibble, which is what I am leaning towards doing.
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2009, 08:01 PM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

There was a study done that proved that the stomach emptied of kibble in 900 minutes (+/- 60); canned 420-480 minutes, fresh 240-360 minutes. ( http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...9390f92ddf4fcd ) If you look at the bottom of page 6 and top of page 7 in the PDF (not the actual numbered pages) you will see references to predominantly liquid meals and predominately meal based foods.

To me that is VERY significant. Raw meat has high levels of bacteria. If is slowed down significantly as it travels through the animals gut by the presence of very slow digesting kibble, the bacteria has time to marry and raise its family. It's colonizing that leads to food-pathogen illness. In humans, there is plenty of time to colonize: looooooong system. Hence the reason humans have a higher likelihood of getting food borne illnesses.

In dogs, there are a couple of huge protective elements: their very caustic stomach acid and their speedy transit time (short digestive track). I don't want to screw up the acid or the speedy transit, both built into the design for processing raw food so I would never feed raw and kibble together.

Many people do it and never have a problem, but I personally know two that HAVE had major (to the point of almost death) problems, so I don’t. In this as in everything, I like to stack the odds in my favor.

I actually see red when people that give advice say, "Well I've been doing it for years with out a problem..." It is the same reason I wear my seat belt; just because I have not been in a car accident in years does not mean it can’t happen. I happened to be wearing it while in a major car accident and it very clearly saved my life. A good friend was not, and did not survive. Ironically, we actually had a joking discussion about it ten minutes before the car hit us. Her excuse was the same as the one above...

IF one feels the need to feed both, I would separate them by as much time as is possible. Especially when feeding the RAW meal after a kibble meal.
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  #3  
Old 07-31-2009, 10:42 PM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

Thank you so much for a very informed answer. If it weren't for this forum I'd still be feeding my Zoe an inferior kibble alone! Everything you said makes sense and is logical and has helped me a great deal in making my decision.

The whole reason the prospect of raw came up for me is because we have a 14 week old bulldog that has joined our family and it is looking like he is intolerant to kibble (apparently the darn little things are prone to sensitive stomachs). He was on the same kibble, EP holistic, that Zoe has been on (which is appropriate for both puppies and adults) but always had the runs! and lots of them!!! I switched him to chicken and rice and have started introducing mince and he not only has improved stool quality, but drastically reduced stool quantity! :) HE also has chicken necks. So seeing how well he does on pretty much a raw diet it got me thinking of switching Zoe too. Zoe has already been exposed to chicken wings, quarters, even carcusses and beef, so I don't think she'll have any trouble making the switch.
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  #4  
Old 07-31-2009, 10:58 PM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

I have been feeding raw for years, and can not see myself going back. It is vastly easier than it seems, and common sense wins every time. Kudos to you for thinking about switching and asking questions; there is no way to learn unless you are curious.

Here is a post I recently wrote about raw feeding:

My honest opinion on this is that you can look at the kids’ cereal box and see that it has 30% – 45% of EVERYTHING you need to grow and thrive. They make it sound like a healthy and complete meal and a wonderful option and that by giving them three meals a day of the stuff will be fully complete. Heck, throw in a vitamin in there and the kid is covered! We know that what is really in there is over processed cardboard with a liberal amount of sugar for taste and sprayed on nutrients. It is neither healthy nor complete.

I see dog food as the same thing. It is so over processed and rendered that it loses all semblance of food and becomes extruded pellets that are over sprayed to re-introduce nutritional value. The pellets fill the dog up, and most comes out the back in about the same condition that it went in as.

A dog is a carnivore. Plain and simple. By feeding a raw diet, you are feeding what the dog would eat naturally and what their bodies are designed to process and utilize. The question becomes WHAT to feed.

I am not a nutrition expert, but have no problem feeding myself and my kids a healthy, balanced diet. We eat meat, veggies, fruit, and some grains and fat. It is the same for the dogs… I don’t have to be an expert to see that if a coyote will hunt, kill and eat a quail, rabbit or rat, and then eat the whole thing, then to me, that is the basis of their diet. Fairly simple… The difficulty becomes in recreating it for our captive dogs.

As most don’t have access to wild caught game, the closest we can come is supermarket prey. Chicken and turkey are readily available as well as beef, pork and fish, so that is where I start. I realize that the wild canid eats more of the animals that are wholly consumed and as such the bone must be a large part of the diet. And as a matter of fact, if I forgo the bone, the dog becomes deficient in calcium and has very loose stool. If I feed too much, his stool becomes dry and he becomes constipated. For my 4 y.o. dog a 10% bone diet is perfect; for my 8 m.o. pup, closer to 18% keeps him firm and his ears falling correctly.

Then comes the veggie debate. Are dogs omnivores or carnivores? How much produce do they snack on in the wild vs. stomach content? For me, I go prey model. I don’t give veggies, but do give green tripe and will supplement with Alfalfa and Kelp if I am out of the tripe. I feel tripe is a more natural way to get green matter in my dogs system than puréed squash, but to each his own.

The only real supplement I give is Salmon Oil and the requisite Vit E. As a wild canid would get wild, grass fed kill that is high in Omega 3 (or rather balanced in the Omegas…) and I can’t do that for him economically, I replace what I am not feeding. No more, no less. The Vit E is to help process the 3’s…

For me, the answer to balance is to look at what is right and natural, and go from there…


My dogs’ diet consists of mostly chicken. I buy them whole and cheap (today I got 10 at $.59 a pound). I cut them into chucks (quarters for my dogs size) and work my way through a chicken for each dog. To me, that is as close to prey as I can get. I give them the liver, gizzard and heart that come with the chicken and throw in a scoop of tripe if I am up to it (I will also toss in a piece of pork or beef kidney or liver as well for variety and because they tolerate it well). I also feed turkey in the same manner (sales after Easter, Thanksgiving and Christmas are AWESOME!!) and rabbit, baby goat and baby sheep when I get it.

For the pork and beef, I realize there are few bones they can consume, so I give mine the joints (non-aggressive chewers here, so know your dogs) and will add a chicken back or some turkey necks to make it a little more balanced. I don’t worry too much about mixing meat, but unless it is pork or beef, I don’t really ever have a reason to.

OH! And I will also throw in a fish or two here or there! For dinner tonight, each is getting a half a chicken, a small can of sardines, four pumps of salmon oil and 1 Vit E cap.
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  #5  
Old 08-01-2009, 12:08 AM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelle View Post
For dinner tonight, each is getting a half a chicken, a small can of sardines, four pumps of salmon oil and 1 Vit E cap.
I would also love to try raw but it seems so complicated on what/how much to feed. I'd love to see a daily menu of what people are feeding for 2 weeks or until the menu replicates! Do you feed this outside or in their kennels since it sounds a little messy as far as half a chicken?!
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2009, 01:21 AM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

:) I feed the dogs each in their own crates. There tends to be very little clean up, as they lick the plastic pan clean each time. I will take the pan out of the crate every Saturday and rinse with bleach water, but that is it.

On average, 2-3% of their weight daily works well, and you want about 10-15% bone and 10-15% organ. Each meal DOES NOT have to be balanced. Look at how we eat, rarely is each meal a balanced meal… Look for balance over time, say a week or two. Bone is the easiest to notice if it is off, as the stool will be too soft or too hard; trust me, you will get it quickly and all your neighbors will thing you are nuts for watching your dogs poop. For organs, I just try to keep it even-ish. Look at the size of the body cavity of a whole chicken or rabbit in relation to the whole body. That is what I look at as even and natural. If a chicken lasts me two days for each dog, then that is how much organ meat they need over a two day period.

As for a daily menu… Keep in mind that each dog is different and will have different needs. Both of my males are very healthy and neither have given me a reason to add or subtract anything from their diets (say an intolerance to beef or pork, a need for Glucosamine or a need for probiotics…) I also keep in mind that my pup will be about 110 and my Jenecks dog is very active (he runs 8-10 miles three days a week and drags 90 lbs for a mile twice a week, and is active in Schutzhund and plays in cattle herding [the pup tags along]…) I watch their weight and body condition to decide how much to feed. A sedentary dog or one not actively growing will need less than these guys. My guys get 2 - 3.5 pounds a day, averaging out to 3 pounds a day over a week or two.

Monday AM: I quarter a whole chicken ($.59 a pound!) with a sharp butcher’s knife. Right down the back bone and then separate the breast and wing from the leg and thigh. I assign each dog a chicken and take the innards (usually a gizzard, heart and liver as well as the neck) and toss them in the morning feeding bowl, one group for each dog. I will toss one of the quarters in the bowl, and put the rest of the chicken in a gallon sized zip-lock bag, freezer thickness. I now have three quarters in each bag (in to the fridge for them) and two bowls with a quarter and a group of innards in them. I then go feed the dogs in their crates. Yes, they will drag it out and make a mess initially, but they end up licking the bowl and the crate clean!

Monday PM: I will toss another quarter into their bowls with four pumps of salmon oil (Grizzly is the brand I buy in bulk) and one Vit E pill.

Tuesday AM: I will give each a quarter from their bags and pull out another two chickens to thaw. I may give each a scoop of tripe (I store it in a Tupperware container in the fridge and a scoop tends to be a ¼ to a ½ a cup). If I don’t, I will do it that evening…

Tuesday PM: Same as Monday PM…

Wednesday AM: I will give them each a pound and a half of pork shoulder or ground beef, or whatever red meat may have been on sale in the last week or so… I may give a fish like trout or catfish (bone and all) or anything else I have on hand, since the two chickens are not thawed out yet.

Wednesday PM: If I gave a meat heavy meal that morning, I will give a bone heavy meal tonight (especially for the pup). This could be turkey necks (CHEAP!) a couple of chicken backs (CHEAP!!) or ox tail. If the AM meal was pretty balanced, I may give another balanced meal or perhaps even fast the older dog. A one pound can of Sardines stinks to high Heaven, but is a good, balanced meal.

Thursday AM: Start over at Monday. I may have substituted a turkey for the chicken, so it may last me three days, or it could be a rabbit I got from a co-op, or a duck that was on sale in the clearance bin at an ethnic grocery store…

Thursday PM: At the store today, the beef heart was REALLY cheap, so I’ll feed each one heart, freeze the other two, and toss in a Turkey neck for each, along with the fish oil and Vit E.

Friday AM: Feed whatever I cut up on Thursday. Toss in a half a pork kidney for each.

Friday PM: Feed Thursdays cut up food and a scoop of tripe along with fish oil and Vit E.

Saturday AM: If anything is left from Thursday’s butcher, I’ll feed that, if not, then I’ll give them a cheap, clearance bin steak or perhaps the heart from the big sale on Thursday.

Saturday PM: Found a 10 pound bag of leg quarters for $4.99! (Bought five bags…) So two or three legs a day for each until this bag runs out. Don’t forget the fish oil and Vit E.

Sunday AM: I will likely give each a pound of beef liver out of those tubs for breakfast with a chicken back…

Sunday PM: Start to cut up another chicken for each dog for Monday morning… Just in case the leg quarter bag is used up…

That’s the basic idea. I train Tuesday PM, Thursday PM and Sunday AM, so the meal for that time is often skipped and fed with the meal before or after or really late. I will not feed an hour and a half before or after a workout, and since training is an hour and forty-five minutes away, it works out well… I also track many mornings a week, so I subtract what I feed on the track from what they get in the bowl. To do this, I may use a smaller chicken, two leg quarters for a day instead of three, etc.

I hope that helps. It is just how I do it. I don’t really use a scale, but glance at the weight stamps on the food before I cut it up or feed it. You kinda get an eye for it after time…

Some save a little money and buy in bulk from restaurant suppliers or raw food co-ops. I don’t usually because the extra freezer I have won’t hold too much. Working sales I usually pay no more than $.99 and typically around $.65 a pound. It is doable for me. If you can get a freezer big enough it may get even cheaper.

If you are just starting, start as simply as possible. NO fat/skin. NO organ meat. NO variety. SMALL meals. If you go too fast, the dog will likely have gut issues. Remember, they have not needed the enzymes that break up the raw food, so that needs to build up in the dogs system (probiotics help with that). They are not used to eating rich food, so work it in slowly with the blandest food first (think of a kid that is used to eating hotdogs going to a high end French restaurant. It takes time to adjust to a richer diet). I like bone in breasts with a chunk of meat removed as well as the fat and skin or a chicken back with all fat and skin removed for the first raw meals.

After a couple of days of normal poops, leave some skin on, or more meat. Then after that works well, add some more meat, or maybe the whole breast. Then after that works, add a teaspoon size piece of chicken liver… Keep adding a little more as the dog adjusts, working up to regular sized meals of great variety. If there is a bout of diarrhea, back up to what worked and go more slowly next time.

The biggest problems are people adding too much variety too fast, or too large of meal sizes too early on. GO SLOW and back up to solid poops if you see a problem.
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  #7  
Old 08-01-2009, 07:39 AM
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Post Re: Combining raw and kibble

I've been feeding half raw and half kibble for years. Often the morning meal is kibble with some yogurt and the evening meal all raw. I've also feed kibble with some raw toppers and have never had any problems.
I do belong to a K9Nutrition group and the theory of feeding kibble and raw at the same time causing problems has been debunked. It does really not matter if kibble takes longer to digest then raw...it causes no problems.
We often eat a variety of things at one time...cooked meats, and raw vegetables,etc....things digest at their own rate..without any problems.

Feeding raw is great. Raising a puppy on raw should be done with a mentor, or breeder helping you. You only get one chance on raising a puppy right and if you are feeding a raw diet that is unbalanced it can do more harm then good.
I've heard of puppies being fed only chicken...and causing problems with a shortage of zinc, copper,etc.
There is more to feeding raw then throwing a couple of chicken backs or necks to the pup.

Gina
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  #8  
Old 08-01-2009, 10:59 AM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

My routine for about the past year has been what Gina does -- grain-free kibble (and either a little hamburger or some canned food mixed in - dehydrated raw mixed in when traveling) in the morning and raw chicken in the evenings (I'll substitute another meat occasionally, but it's usually chicken) - I do rotate the brand and flavor of the grain-free kibble. It's worked great for my 6 year old Rottweiler, my 8 year old Basenji mix, and my 15 month old Pharaoh Hound! It cleared up skin issues on the Rottweiler, and all dogs are in great condition!
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2009, 11:55 AM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

Quote:
Originally Posted by brunie's mom View Post
I've been feeding half raw and half kibble for years. Often the morning meal is kibble with some yogurt and the evening meal all raw. I've also feed kibble with some raw toppers and have never had any problems.
I do belong to a K9Nutrition group and the theory of feeding kibble and raw at the same time causing problems has been debunked. It does really not matter if kibble takes longer to digest then raw...it causes no problems.
We often eat a variety of things at one time...cooked meats, and raw vegetables,etc....things digest at their own rate..without any problems.
You fall into that category of, "Well I have never had a problem..." I hope you continue not to have one. Again, I know two people in the last year that HAVE (one very recently), and both nearly lost their dogs. Why take the risk?

The theory has not been 'debunked' but facts can be skewed anyway we want. Yep, we eat many types of food at once, and it all digests together in our gut, moves along at the same pace. We also don't usually eat raw chicken or beef that is FULL of pathogens, we cook it, so it does not matter at what rate it goes through. Actually, if even a little salmonella is found one head raw lettuce, the whole harvest is recalled because we humans ARE susceptible to food borne illness. We get it all the time. If we ate raw pork all the time, we would get sicker much more often. Using the human digestion cycle, even incorrectly, to validify a theory of canine digestion is unfounded. Two different species, vastly different track length and acidity, and very different diets.

With the dogs digestive track being so much shorter and their stomach acid being so much more caustic, they are naturally taking care of the problems we can’t. The concept of the gut choosing to digest foods at a different rate that that is laughable. It all mixes up in the stomach and is pushed along together. And four hours vs. fifteen is a HUGE difference.

I also know people who fed/feed Science Diet or Benniful for years without a problem; does that mean it is a healthy and complete diet? Not to most here, but they never had a problem...

I you want to take the chance by slowing the transit time down, go for it. To each their own.

Quote:
Feeding raw is great. Raising a puppy on raw should be done with a mentor, or breeder helping you. You only get one chance on raising a puppy right and if you are feeding a raw diet that is unbalanced it can do more harm th[a]n good.
I've heard of puppies being fed only chicken...and causing problems with a shortage of zinc, copper,etc.
There is more to feeding raw then throwing a couple of chicken backs or necks to the pup.

Gina
There is a heck of a lot more to it than chicken necks and backs. If you looked at my weekly meal you will see that chicken is about 60%, there is also rabbit, duck, turkey, fish, beef and pork. More varied than most humans get. I also feed venison and elk during hunting season. Not sure how you got that I am advocating a chicken back diet… Slightly insulted…

A mentor or breeder that knows raw feeding is a great help, but not everyone can find one next door. There are plenty of people that actually KNOW how to feed to be found on forums and training lists. There are also about 200 books on the subject. I think a lot research and a good place to ask questions is a great place to start.

For people that are worried about balance and are worried about not being able to do it right, I always recommend a dehydrated raw, like The Honest Kitchen, to be a stepping stone. I use it today if I am going to be leaving town and someone else will be feeding my dogs. There are also many pre-made raw diets that are not cheap, but work well for many, especially small dogs and puppies.

It isn't rocket science, but mostly common sense with a few fairly concrete rules.

I don’t criticize people that feed dry food. I did once and most of my family still does to this day. Since the OP expressed an interest, I shared how I feel about it and how I do it, and add that each dog is different and that mine are very healthy with no concerns about adding or subtracting, for a medical reason, their diet. If your dog is not healthy, or you do not feel comfortable, then by all means, feed what you need to. Raw is the best for the dogs, but not always for our lifestyles, budget, or confidence.
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Old 08-01-2009, 07:13 PM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelle View Post
You fall into that category of, "Well I have never had a problem..." I hope you continue not to have one. Again, I know two people in the last year that HAVE (one very recently), and both nearly lost their dogs. Why take the risk?

The theory has not been 'debunked' but facts can be skewed anyway we want. Yep, we eat many types of food at once, and it all digests together in our gut, moves along at the same pace. We also don't usually eat raw chicken or beef that is FULL of pathogens, we cook it, so it does not matter at what rate it goes through. Actually, if even a little salmonella is found one head raw lettuce, the whole harvest is recalled because we humans ARE susceptible to food borne illness. We get it all the time. If we ate raw pork all the time, we would get sicker much more often. Using the human digestion cycle, even incorrectly, to validify a theory of canine digestion is unfounded. Two different species, vastly different track length and acidity, and very different diets.

With the dogs digestive track being so much shorter and their stomach acid being so much more caustic, they are naturally taking care of the problems we can’t. The concept of the gut choosing to digest foods at a different rate that that is laughable. It all mixes up in the stomach and is pushed along together. And four hours vs. fifteen is a HUGE difference.

I also know people who fed/feed Science Diet or Benniful for years without a problem; does that mean it is a healthy and complete diet? Not to most here, but they never had a problem...

I you want to take the chance by slowing the transit time down, go for it. To each their own.



There is a heck of a lot more to it than chicken necks and backs. If you looked at my weekly meal you will see that chicken is about 60%, there is also rabbit, duck, turkey, fish, beef and pork. More varied than most humans get. I also feed venison and elk during hunting season. Not sure how you got that I am advocating a chicken back diet… Slightly insulted…

A mentor or breeder that knows raw feeding is a great help, but not everyone can find one next door. There are plenty of people that actually KNOW how to feed to be found on forums and training lists. There are also about 200 books on the subject. I think a lot research and a good place to ask questions is a great place to start.

For people that are worried about balance and are worried about not being able to do it right, I always recommend a dehydrated raw, like The Honest Kitchen, to be a stepping stone. I use it today if I am going to be leaving town and someone else will be feeding my dogs. There are also many pre-made raw diets that are not cheap, but work well for many, especially small dogs and puppies.

It isn't rocket science, but mostly common sense with a few fairly concrete rules.

I don’t criticize people that feed dry food. I did once and most of my family still does to this day. Since the OP expressed an interest, I shared how I feel about it and how I do it, and add that each dog is different and that mine are very healthy with no concerns about adding or subtracting, for a medical reason, their diet. If your dog is not healthy, or you do not feel comfortable, then by all means, feed what you need to. Raw is the best for the dogs, but not always for our lifestyles, budget, or confidence.
Don't think for a minute that kibble does not have salmonella or e-coli, or other pathogens...makes no difference how long they get through to digest.
Been feeding this way for at least 12 years...to all of my personal dogs, and to probably over 40 foster dogs...so I think I can safely say, there is no problems.
Dogs have also choked on kibble, or died from perforation because of chicken bones....but I would say neither kibble or chicken bones are dangerous.

Again, do your research...and read some. Monica Segal has written a couple of books, and has no problems telling people to mix kibble with some raw,etc.

I again...was not mentioning your diet, or of what you feed. I do know that we've had many members here wanting to start feeding raw...and they have this idea that feeding raw...is throwing a couple of chicken legs to their dog a couple of times per day and all is right. We've had members here that have by ignorance done damage to their dogs.
Not sure why you thought I was saying anything about your diet??

Again, I'm all for a raw diet...if it's done right.

Gina
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  #11  
Old 08-01-2009, 09:19 PM
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Re: Combining raw and kibble

Quote:
Originally Posted by brunie's mom View Post
Don't think for a minute that kibble does not have salmonella or e-coli, or other pathogens...makes no difference how long they get through to digest.
Well we will have to agree to disagree. That is why there was an abundance of food recalls a couple of years ago (this is just an identification of the symptoms, does not mean it has not been happening for years...). Now the pet food industry is ultra careful on how they store their food. Salmonella is spread through feces and grows in the digestion tract. Not pretty but fact. Pet food is well cooked, and this bacteria dies in high heat (hence the recommendation too cook your meat...) so the food is likely caused by mouse or rat droppings AFTER the rendering as it has to be REINTRODUCED after the initial cooking. As it grows in the gut tract, the length of time it takes to travel through the digestive tract is VERY relevant, as it takes time to proliferate.

I am sure that there are many pathogens on both the raw and kibble foods. That is why MOST advocates of raw feeding recommended feeding it at different times. As a safety precaution for the different digestion rates. Some are healthier than others, have more owners that don't worry about an incident or loose stool, or have vets that treat the symptoms and don't worry as much about the tough diagnosis of typical symptoms, and some are more susceptible or have more observant owners/vets.

I too have cared for/fed many fosters, 28 as of this posting, and they tend to be fed kibble as per the agreement and provided by the group that gave me the dogs to foster, the AC, HS or the rescues. I too have never had an incident of food borne pathogens. Does not mean I want to take the risks of feeding both in a meal.

Continue what you are doing. Does not matter to me.

Quote:
Not sure why you thought I was saying anything about your diet??
As to why I took it as a reply to my post and menu; you replied to my post about my diet and how a chicken based diet is bad and implied (intentionally or not) that mine was deficient and I was giving a poor example. If this is not what you meant, then no harm/no foul
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:59 AM
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Post Re: Combining raw and kibble

Dogs are exposed to e-coli all of the time, everytime they eat dog poop or lick their bums...they are full of the bacteria...as are people. It's when too much of it is in the system that it causes problems.

I have Monica Segal's book here and she quotes"A few books and many people suggest that raw food passes through the stomach in 5 hours while processed food takes 10 to 15 hours. This is not quite accurate. Processed foods can take as little as five hours. Dr. DC Twedt, DVM DACVIM, a respected gastroenterologist who states that the average emptying time is usually 5-8 hours and anything over 10 is considered delayed. The mention of 15 appears and some people use this as a time frame to state that the transit time of processed food is 15 hours. This is not so."

She has also published a booklet "Enhancing a Kibble Diet" and feeding raw with kibble as with other fresh foods is encouraged...as long as it's not more then 1/3 of the diet at one time.
I also believe that in Dr.Pitcairin's book he also suggests mixing in raw meat with kibble.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree...but to me it makes no sense why two different foods cannot be fed at the same time...if they are processed or raw. I think the idea got started, and everyone thought it was true...and it just seems to go round and round.

Gina
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