Ready to take the plunge!!!

[MarleysMama]

I am SO fed up with Marley not thriving on his kibble, DH and I have decided to take the plunge and feed him raw. We are going to go with the raw pray model.

Marley is 9 months old today and all of 66 pounds. He is underweight (according to the vet...not just the # on the scale, lol) and just not thriving on his kibble. He was on Canidae since we brought him home...for a good 6 months, just switched over maybe a week ago to Ca Natural, Herring and sweet potato and he just will not gain any weight. He's very underweight, even my vet is concerned and we had him retested for worms...and all was negative and even did a treatment just incase. Well, I am over trying to figure this out. Marley knows he gets food for 10-15 mintes and if he doesn't eat, no treats...nothing until his next meal. Then about 10 minutes before bed, he is offered his food one last time (b/c he will not have eaten all day and I feed horrible) and then eats and it's the same song and dance then next day. He's getting half the calories he should be. He isn't spoiled..he chooses to not eat and I will not and cannot let this keep happening. He isn't thriving so it's time to try something else.

I'm SO very excited about making the switch, namely b/c of the pictures of Angelbunny's Sailor. Their stories and very similiar and I am hoping we get half the results she saw with her boy.

Now...I do have a few questions....

1.) Since it's not kibble, do we have to feed twice a day or will once a day suffice?

2.) I have seen conflicting info on how much meat/bone/organs we should be feeding...any ideas?

3.) I do know that every single meal will not be balanced, that is something we will achieve over time..so is this correct... Say we feed one meat a few days, another meat another day, then do we do organs another day?? Then say we have a whole chicken (cut up of course, and then he gets a combo...is this correct?

4.) I know this is probbaly b/c of all the kibble hype, but the info on how their calcium/phosphorus ratios...that doesnt really apply at this point does it?? He will be getting everything he needs over time, correct?

I really think I get the point of this, and I truly think it's a million times easier than I thought it was going to be. LOL.

I know Marley should be getting 2-3% of his body weight...which translates into about
1.3 pounds - 1.9 pounds a day. Since he is overweight right now, should I feed on the higher end of that for now?

Okay, so do I have everything down.. or do I need to know anything else before we go ahead and do this?

Thanks so much for the help, advice and for this seperate forum for us folks learning/feeding raw!!!

[QuietDaze]

Good for you!!! After I switched I haven't looked back. I wish I could answer your questions but as a newbie you need someone who can answer you intelligently. I am pretty much winging it and it's working out. Plus Kane is 4 so I don't have the 'puppy still growing' concerns.

But I do think Marley is supposed to have 2-3% of his ideal body weight. Why not just cut the chicken in 1/2 instead of cutting it up? When I give Kane a whole chicken it's about 4lbs give or take so 1/2 should be right up Marley's alley.

Isn't Sailor quite the inspiration?!

[MarleysMama]

Oh wow, I would have been underfeeding him by a LOT then. LOL. I will have a hard time finding out what his ideal body weight should be though...his parents were both VERY large dogs, but he's such a little guy....

I'm sorry, I should have worded that better...I ment to cut it into the size he could eat. LOL. I figured the whole chicken would have been too much for him to eat, so I ment to cut it into the size he needed, either cut the chicken in half or 3rds or whatever it would be. lol

Sailor definately is the epitome of what raw can do for a dog... I periodically go to check out the pics of him, but can't since the gallery is down. :(

[QuietDaze]

He can probably eat 1/2 a chicken with no problems, but if you want it smaller just make sure he has to actually chew. Also - make sure the parents aren't fat. Just cause they're big doesn't mean they should be lol.

I'm excited for you and Marley!

[MarleysMama]

Thank you, I cannot wait to get started!

Unfortunately, Marley didn't come from a reputable breeder...so that's not an option. Knowing what I know now...his parents were probably overweight. You know the typical, "150 pound Dad and 110 pound female"...so I really have no idea how much they truly weighed. lol

[Janus'sMom]

I'm planning on feeding Janus raw when he's done growing. But I'm just curious as to the feeding the chicken. Everyone I know tells me not to let him have bird bones... when feeding a half chicken, do you de-bone it first?

[brutus'mother]

I started feeding raw when Brutus was about 13 months old and the majority of his growing was done. Feeding raw is so easy but you will need to have a general idea of what your doing before jumping in. I would strongly suggest you go back and read a recent post by AngelBunny where she lists sites that are very helpful and provide solid information about feeding raw. I'm sure she will respond to your questions and maybe provide the same links for you (sorry, I'm not good with posting links).

To answer your questions:
1. I feed raw twice a day just like when I fed kibble. I wouldn't suggest changing to once daily feedings until you get more comfortable with feeding raw. In addition, since your dog is underweight you will want to stay with twice daily feedings.

2. 80% meat 10% edible bone and 10% organ meat with half of that being liver.

3. When first starting raw most suggest starting with chicken. It seems to be a little easier when transitioning from kibble. I started with chicken and stayed with chicken for 2 full weeks. I then slowly added other meat sources, one at a time. For example, I added a small piece of boneless venison to the chicken and slowly increased the venison and decreased the chicken. I have found a slow introduction of new meats was easiest for my dogs digestive system meaning he has not had any runny stools. I also SLOWLY added in some liver. I don't measure anything anymore. I used whole chickens and I invested in a good pair of poultry shears. I cut the chicken in fourths and handed a fourth over at a time. I also feed the chicken organs included inside. The key is to add variety slowly. The best way to gauge the percentages of meat and bone is by being a poop watcher. Runny poop means add more bone. Hard crumbly poop add more meat. Be prepared to see a lot less poop!!

4. I don't worry too much about the ca/phos anymore. This number will vary over time and will probably not be the 1:1 ratio as is suggested with kibble. Keep in mind, kibble has to be balanced every meal because it's always the same. You will be providing lots of variety, some days a little more calcium other days a little more phosphorus, it "balances" over time.

5. 2-3% of the ideal adult weight is correct. You can aim for the higher end if you are trying to put some weight on your guy. Just remember, overfeeding with raw may bring the same results as overfeeding kibble.....loose stools. I would aim for the higher end and back off a little if the stool gets messy.

Feeding raw is easy! A lot easier than I thought it would be too. I was a nervous wreck the first time I gave Brutus chicken with all those bones inside. He eats like a champ now and even though I never wander to far away from him while he's eating, I don't watch him like a hawk anymore. He seems to know what he's doing. It's almost like it comes naturally to him.

Check out the Yahoo Groups about raw feeding.
Please keep us posted about how it's going.
Good Luck!

[AngelBunny]

Best of luck with your boy's new diet, MarleysMama! Putting Sailor on raw was the best thing. My vet and I were at our wit's end, struggling for close to 6 months to figure out what was wrong with him and why he failed to thrive on premium kibble. The astonishing improvement in him has convinced me, 100%, as to the merits of raw.

I see you posted in the Raising a Puppy on Raw discussion. The URLs I posted are among the best I read on raw and they'll answer your questions.

When I fed kibble, I fed twice/day. I've stuck to this feeding raw. My dogs are used to eating breakfast and dinner, so I just kept their routine. Sounds as tho you fed Marley kibble twice/day, so why not keep this routine?

Do you have a digital scale? I measured kibble with a kitchen measuring cup and I weigh everything feeding raw.

From where will you be buying Marley's raw--the grocery store? From a raw supplier such as Oma's Pride, Bravo!, or someplace else? (Don't forget to ask friends for freezer burned meats (but pass if they offer you freezer burned sausages, bacon, or other processed meats.))

As far as what ratios to feed--I've read 65% raw meaty bones, 35% muscle meat, and 5% organ. I've also read 80%, 10%, and 10%. What these percentages say to me is that meat and bone need to comprise the bulk of the dog's diet rounded out by muscle meats and organs.

You can feed a meal of one meat, feed another meat the next meal, and yet another meat the following meal. Or, you can feed several meats in one meal. I've done both--it depends on what I have on hand and what I've thawed. Every single meal the dog eats doesn't have to follow the 65-35-5 composition because the ratios will balance out over time if you're feeding as wide a variety as you can find.

Feed 2-3% of the dog's ideal weight. Sailor was on 6 cups of Canidae and then CA Nat/day, divided between breakfast and supper. He couldn't put on weight and he looked like garbage. On that amount of kibble his weight hovered around 82 lbs and stayed there. I'm a big believer in keeping dogs lean but that was too lean. Sailor looked like a boney bag covered in nasty dreadful hair.

I didn't feed him excessive amounts of raw but he started to put on weight, simply because his system was able to digest what he was being fed. Now he weighs about 93 lbs. He's still lean, but he looks good.

As a new raw feeder and still dazzled over the change I've seen in Velveteen Rabbit...err...our foster Sailor! I am interested in reading what you have to say about Marley and raw. I hope his diet change will be as positive as it was for Sailor.

Janus'sMom--The everyone you know who tells you not to feed raw bird bones to your dog clearly don't know very much about raw.

No, you do not bebone the chicken prior to feeding it to your dog.

Please, check out the URLs I posted in Raising a Puppy on Raw. They're excellent.

[MarleysMama]

brutus'mother... I couldn't help but laugh to myself when reading how to introduce new foods into the dog's diet... I JUST got done explaining how to introduce baby food to an infant to a friend of mine is it's just so funny how similiar it all really is. lol. Give it a few weeks and see if they have any reactions..it makes perfect sence, lol. Plus Marley did have a reaction to something in Canidae and with it having 4 protein sources, I am curious to see which one we would have trouble with. Thanks so much for the answers and advice!


Angelbunny, I certainly bookmarked all of those sits you mentioned in a few previous threads. lol. I am actually waiting to get approve by one of the moderators for one of the yahoo groups, I am very excited about all of this!


Marley for the most part one eats once a day as he refuses his first meal...that's the only reason I was curious how often to eat everyday. But to be honest, I sort of like the 2x's a day better as I could see if I need to make any adjustments to his meal based on his poops.

I actually emailed all of my friends and relative close by and asked them if they ever have any freezer burnt food, to please let me know instead of throwing it out..AND I am lucky enough to live right next door to my husband's uncle who LOVES to hunt, especially deer and he promised me ALL of his scraps :D He looked at me like I was a bit crazy until I explained..lol.

I am going to also call a few butcher shops a round heer and see if and how much they would sell the meat they can't use.
I am going to try and buy and bulk and freeze, and certainly not buy from a grocery store...just chicken legs/thighs etc...as I can get them for 99 cents a pound...which is decent. We live on a family owned farm road, but unfortunately the main farm doesn't slauter their meat cows..just sells them..that would have been great though!

I looked into Oma's pride..but that list made my head spin! LOL. Any suggestions..what do you usually order??

Thank you all so much for all your advice and tips, I cannot wait to get my freezer stocked and start this!

[brutus'mother]

You may find that there isn't a problem with any of the protein sources in Canidae, it may very well be a problem with one of the grains.
Asking family and friends for freezer burned meat is a great start.
When first starting out I went to Kmart and bought whole chickens on sale for .79 cents a pound. I try to feed big pieces of meat so Brutus has to work at it. I know some members here feed chicken wings and legs but those pieces scare me, they seem like the perfect size to be swallowed whole.
As far as talking to the butcher-you may want to go in person. The butchers I have talked to in person have been more receptive than on the phone.
I've never ordered from Oma's pride so I can't help you there.
The only thing I have ordered is strips of green tripe with spleen from Hare Today.
Finding new sources of meat at better prices is like a game to me now.
Have fun and good luck.

[AngelBunny]

Originally Posted by MarleysMama

...We live on a family owned farm road, but unfortunately the main farm doesn't slauter their meat cows..just sells them..!

Ask who does the slaughtering and talk to the slaughter house about buying meaty bones and organs.

Originally Posted by MarleysMama

...I looked into Oma's pride..but that list made my head spin!...Any suggestions..what do you usually order??!

From Oma's Pride I buy the duck, chicken, and turkey necks (the 30 & 40 lb boxes); boxes of tripe and performance dog (which is beef); sardines; chicken gizzards; turkey gizzards and hearts; tuna; and salmon.

[Lola B Marie]

Good for you! Excellent decision. We would have done the same if not for Lola's stomach issues. If for any reason, this does not work out for you, which I'm sure it will, I just wanted to say that (Brunie's mom) Gina,had posted a recipe for home cooked dog food that is excellent. I tweaked it a little to fit Lola's needs. It provides almost everything a healthy dog needs.
Wishing you good luck with the raw! Please post progress.