Nationwide proposal for Germany

[Judi W]

I think this will prove very important to us all. Things are becoming very difficult indeed for dogs in our parent country. Judi

Subject: [DogHolocaust] Proposed German Federal Law.

> Yes you can cross-post to anyone. I forgot to mention, that this will be
discussed in Berlin within the next month and the final decision will be
made by 31 Dec 2000.
> Cathie
>
> ====================================
> We just received the 14 page copy of the law Germany would like to make
nation wide. I am nearly at a loss for words, it is very disheartening to
all of us here. And when you read this, all of you who live in a civilized
society...you must think this is a joke or that we are back in the early
1940's Germany. Here it is in a nutshell:
>
> The import of American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier
and Pitbull is forbidden. ANY REGION MAY CREATE THEIR OWN LIST AND ADD AS
MANY BREEDS AS THEY WANT!
>
> The government, AT ANY TIME, must have access to your home, building,
apartment for inspection. They have the right to enter every room. You
must show them every article in the building relating to your dogs...crates,
bedding, leashes, etc. They can, AT ANY TIME, test your dog by taking
urine, blood or skin samples and you must help them with this. You must
show them every piece of paper on the premises relating to the dogs. IF
YOU REFUSE TO HELP...you will pay a fine and serve time in jail. You could
lose your dogs.
>
> If you travel across Germany with a breed that is forbidden, you must get
written permission before the trip, FROM EACH REGION, you plan to travel
through. IF YOU ARE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY and want to take one of the breeds
of dogs banned, into Germany...you must have permission from each region in
which you are traveling. If you are taking a breed on one the lists to a
region where they are legal, you will be issued a SPECIFIED CHECKPOINT where
you must take the dog, before he can be allowed in this region. Each region
has the authority to issue any type of restriction they want before you can
travel through...such as: your crate must be securely locked, or the dog
must be muzzled in the crate, etc.
>
> And the last point is that they are going to change the animal protection
act...this was not new news...but now it is in print. Why change it? The
dogs that they want to be destroyed, will enable them to legally do so.
>
> If anyone truely cannot believe what I am writing...all 14 pages can be
found on the German Ministry of the Interior website. Translation you must
provide in your respective countries.
> http://www.bmi.bund.de/themen/in_kampfhund.html
>
> Sadly,
> Cathie Dettmar
>
> __________________________________________________
> The Bull Terrier.Com Email List

[CT.Tom]

JudiW,
They are losing it there!Plain and simple,you can see how fast a country can regress.Its crazy to read posts like this i was just there and never saw the hysteria?
What goes on in the court systems there who knows?and judicial?
Be glad your American..But as i've said before this spreads like Taxes!We need to be on our toes here!There are groups here and now that want the same laws here...if any of us that have the knowledge or capacity to see or get the new proposals here...e-mail me you have my vote ..AGAINST!BAN BAD OWNERS THAT HAS MY VOTE!!!!!

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Ct.Tom

[Judi W]

One of the difficulties with the "ban bad owners" is the question of who is to decide who is a bad owner? This is the slippery slope with regulations. Rather than bans of any sort, it is actions that need to be addressed, not individuals descriptions be it the dog or the owner. Many of the German municipalities have that as a corner of their regulations. They now have a long list of who may or may not own certain dogs. That list can be expanded at any time until, in effect, the dogs are banned. Germany failed to enforce laws that were in place hence occurances that have led to where they are now.

Here in the US, if leash laws, etc. are enforced, then there are few reasons for complaints. We all need to make sure we are not responsible for creating a climate that calls for such regulation and do our best to educate others to do the same. I just read elsewhere on this forum where someone was talking about how they walked their 3 Rottweilers through the neighborhood without leashes and how good those dogs are. Well, I do not find that reassuring. With the right stimulus, it is a Rottweiler dog pack going someplace and something serious could very well happen. I do not want my right to own the breed of my choice jeopardized by someone who doesn't have a clue, however rather than telling them what they can and cannot own, I would seriously fine them for violating the leash laws, with the fines to increase for repeated offenses and/or the dogs to be confiscated if the owner proves not to be responsible.

[German Vanegas]

Since the beginning of this forum I started warning people about the potential threat of banning the Rottweiler, due to irresponsible breeding and irresponsible dog ownership... most members laughed at me, "It won't happen here!!!" "We are free to do as we please!!!" "That's impossible!!"... Well, is everybody getting the message now?

We always wait until we have to think of a cure, instead of PREVENTING the situation from happening... The immediate future of our breed is gloomy http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

[BETTY HASTY]

German,
As usual you are right everyone always thinks ah never happen to me! Well I learned a long time ago that it can & does happen to "me" ! So wake up & smell the roses folks I guess better late than never. Just remember talk is cheap & we all need to do our part to protect our breed if we want to be able to keep them.

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BETTY HASTY
NO LIMIT ROTTS
(FORMERLY REED'S/VON LUKEGAROO)

[This message has been edited by BETTY HASTY (edited September 21, 2000).]

[Dux]

Totally agree with you Judi. Many of the problems we have in this society in general is people lack common sense or fail to use the sense they do have. Rottweilers are not for everybody, and to imagine 3 Rotties walking through a neighborhood off leash is TRULY AMAZING as to how stupid some people truly are. I always go back to the old line...it is never the dogs fault, it is the onwer.

Originally posted by Judi W:
One of the difficulties with the "ban bad owners" is the question of who is to decide who is a bad owner? This is the slippery slope with regulations. Rather than bans of any sort, it is actions that need to be addressed, not individuals descriptions be it the dog or the owner. Many of the German municipalities have that as a corner of their regulations. They now have a long list of who may or may not own certain dogs. That list can be expanded at any time until, in effect, the dogs are banned. Germany failed to enforce laws that were in place hence occurances that have led to where they are now.

Here in the US, if leash laws, etc. are enforced, then there are few reasons for complaints. We all need to make sure we are not responsible for creating a climate that calls for such regulation and do our best to educate others to do the same. I just read elsewhere on this forum where someone was talking about how they walked their 3 Rottweilers through the neighborhood without leashes and how good those dogs are. Well, I do not find that reassuring. With the right stimulus, it is a Rottweiler dog pack going someplace and something serious could very well happen. I do not want my right to own the breed of my choice jeopardized by someone who doesn't have a clue, however rather than telling them what they can and cannot own, I would seriously fine them for violating the leash laws, with the fines to increase for repeated offenses and/or the dogs to be confiscated if the owner proves not to be responsible.

[Barbara Surplus]

This is unbelievable and frightening! I agree with all the comments here about responsible pet ownership and we've all got to work to make responsibility a reality. Total banning of our beloved breed could happen in the blink of an eye and by then it will be too late.
Barbara

[This message has been edited by Barbara Surplus (edited September 21, 2000).]

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Judi W:
...Yes, bans can and do happen here, but as a rule, citizens in the US do not follow orders quite as easily as people do in some other countries. A vexation to those who want to be in charge.

Oh! A specific breed ban is very easy to enforce. Importation is prohibited, banned! Then, all current owners of the specific breed are required by law to neuter or spay their pets. Breeding registration is prohibited. With the legal threat of courts and draconian fines, the breed starts to dissapear slowly but surely. Dogs prior to the ban will be required to be walked in public only wearing muzzles, or the dog can be seized and destroyed. I mean, it can get really nasty.

So you better believe it. It can happen here in America. Therefore, let us be in the right track and be proactive in educating people, projecting a positive image through responsible dog ownership, and get involved with dog organizations such as Dog Owners of America, AKC, UKC, etc, to fight for our rights... or else, be afraid, very afraid.

[Judi W]

I'd like to get back on the topic of how this type of activity effects the breed. (I know, I too digressed into breed bans).

The restrictions are going to be quite fierce and I suspect that protection type activities will be stopped. It may end up that the US will be one of the few places where Schutzhund and ZPT tests will be allowed to continue. This in turn, might have quite an influence on the character of the breed at least in those countries, and Germany is the source of many of the US stronger working dogs. The proposal in Germany is that dogs will have to pass a temperament test that allows the dog to show no aggression under any circumstances. If this turns out to be the case, what will happen to the character of the breed?

Discussion please.

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Judi W:
... The proposal in Germany is that dogs will have to pass a temperament test that allows the dog to show no aggression under any circumstances. If this turns out to be the case, what will happen to the character of the breed?

Discussion please.

The traditional Rottweiler and its true temperament, drives, and traits, will be dilluted into the toy dog group. Plain and simple.

[Judi W]

I am afraid I foresee a familiarly marked dog with a long tail and behavior like a golden. This is not what I would choose. Although other countries might not have quite as hard a dog as we often see coming out of Germany, it may be that the safekeeping of character will be in countries other than Germany or EU countries.

Take care of you breeding stock, select with wisdom.

[Mick Trainer]

I agree with German here. Such laws would spell the end to the Rottweiler as we know and love it. The dog would simiply end up being a black and tan retriever. Not good.

Mick.

[Judi W]

Does this mean then that you do not believe that proper character can be maintained without stock from Germany and EU countries? In otherwords, doesn't the US and other non-EU countries have enough temperamentally sound breeding stock to maintain the correct Rottweiler character?

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Judi W:
Does this mean then that you do not believe that proper character can be maintained without stock from Germany and EU countries? In otherwords, doesn't the US and other non-EU countries have enough temperamentally sound breeding stock to maintain the correct Rottweiler character?

Remember that ethical breeders are the minority in the USA, and working breeding enthusiasts are even less http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

[CT.Tom]

German,
Well said on so many points!I've been stating since i started posting that we need to stick together!When it comes time to support people fighting bans or new laws on the docket..STAND UP AND BE COUNTED!This forum is a great way to tell people about upcoming problems that need addressing!So lets take advantage of it.....
JudiW. yes we do more than enough(good dogs and blood)...if we only had enough ethical breeders? http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif


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Ct.Tom