Rottweiler Discussion Forums

Go Back   Rottweiler Discussion Forums > Rottweiler > General Info
Did you forget your password? Reset it here


General Info What size crate? Where to find insurance? If it doesn't quite fit in the other main forums, it goes here. We will add forums as needed.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:16 PM
JemarsSerena's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fountain, CO
Images: 38
Doggy Bitches

Quote:
a 100lb bitch would be VERY large at probably out of the standard for height or grossly obese. Bitches should be 70-90lbs when in good weight (NOT disgusting show weight) and when within the 22-25" height range
Ok, I completely agree with this, but the standard does not define a doggy bitch. How do you determine a doggy bitch? The standard calls it a fault, but can't tell you the difference. The standard describes proportions for a rott, but does not differentiate between dogs and bitches. Can someone link me to a picture of a doggy bitch or tell me where the standard describes one?

I personally like a bitch with solid bone and a strong headpiece that screams "I AM A ROTTWEILER". Serena is 75lbs, but my Cora will probably finish growing in the 90-95lb range. Since Cora will be a good sized bitch, does that make her doggy? It is such an undefined term.

I have seen plenty of bitchy dogs to understand what one looks like.
__________________
Bill
Isabelle 1997-2004
Jemar's Serena RN, BH, CGC,TDI 02-06 (Major pointed)
Jemar's V. Anything Goes Little Loki RA, CGC 10-07
Corabella von der Aunkst 09-10
Reply With Quote
Members of Rottweiler Discussion Forums have rated post 1006277 as the most helpful. Skip right to it!
 
  #2  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:28 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: Unity, NH USA
Images: 62
Re: Doggy Bitches

If you cannot tell if the ADULT bitch in question is male or female (and suspect it is a male) without looking underneath them they are probably "doggy"
__________________
Diane-Dogs of Frontier
Annie RE,CGC,Wildlife Recovery
Aeryn CL-4FSH
Itsy
Gone-VP Darla SAS 12/00-2/02 U-CD Bea CD,RE,TD,CGC,TT Osteo 3/03 - 2/08 Bonnie CGC AIHA 2/08-8/10, Bill HICs,TT 10/98-8/13
Reply With Quote


  #3  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:17 PM
BostonRott's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Location: Holliston, MA
Images: 7
Re: Doggy Bitches

Bill,

It's not just a fault, its a BREED DISQUALIFICATION. If you must look at the underbits to know whether the animal belongs in dogs or bitches, and indeed it is a bitch, that is incorrect.
__________________
Gretchen Caldwell
Vikka OA OAJ NAP Top 10 agility
Fizz CGC, HIs

Gone on:
Bort BH AD, Froli SchH2 AD BST OA AXJ CGC ARC VX, Top 10 agility, Banja NA NAJ Top 10 agility, Xcel CGC TT
Reply With Quote


  #4  
Old 06-08-2011, 08:33 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NC
Images: 13
Re: Doggy Bitches

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonRott View Post
Bill,

It's not just a fault, its a BREED DISQUALIFICATION. If you must look at the underbits to know whether the animal belongs in dogs or bitches, and indeed it is a bitch, that is incorrect.
Understood as far as at a conformation show but if it's a pet that's not being bred I don't think it's that big of a deal. *shrugs* Having said this...I'm talking about a female in a litter that just happens to turn out with these features...NOT from a breeder specifically trying to breed females like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frontierrots View Post
If you cannot tell if the ADULT bitch in question is male or female (and suspect it is a male) without looking underneath them they are probably "doggy"
Makes sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by JemarsSerena View Post
I personally like a bitch with solid bone and a strong headpiece that screams "I AM A ROTTWEILER". Cora will probably finish growing in the 90-95lb range.
So do I and I 'hope' the female pup I get will be at least 90 lbs....and as much as 100 lbs. and I don't mean obese either.
Reply With Quote


  #5  
Old 06-08-2011, 10:09 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Santa Maria, CA
Images: 8
Re: Doggy Bitches

I have mixed feelings on this issue... I personally like a strong bitch, much like Bill has described. I want her strong and with bone, but to still look like a bitch, kinda.

I have found that there is a time and a place to breed a strong looking bitch as well. If one has a male that, through generations of breeding, has a little lighter look to him, but is excellent in ever other way, breeding pout to a stronger bitch can improve the "look" of the lines. Same goes for a lighter female to a stronger male. It is all about finding the mate that compliments your animal best and compliments your animals weaknesses. But as breeding is best left to the pros, and they would know their lines inside and out and know what to expect from a combination generations before the breeding happens, and be willing to cull (spay/neuter...) and...

Personally, I feel the dam of my young male is a little doggy, but she crossed well with a male that is a little lighter and really evened out the litter nicely. He is in my pic gallery and has his parents listed there. She is owed by an international judge and he felt comfortable breeding her.
__________________
Be as gentle as possible and as firm as necessary
Reply With Quote


  #6  
Old 06-08-2011, 10:31 AM
JemarsSerena's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fountain, CO
Images: 38
Re: Doggy Bitches

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonRott View Post
Bill,

It's not just a fault, its a BREED DISQUALIFICATION. If you must look at the underbits to know whether the animal belongs in dogs or bitches, and indeed it is a bitch, that is incorrect.
I guess that is what I am getting at. If it is a disqualification, you figure it would be more defined. The rest of the standard desrcribes all the propotions of a rottweiler. The only place it differentiates between male and female is when it comes to height. If males and females are supposed to look distinctly different, it would be nice to know how. Not sure that it is fair to some to have a dog disqualified because of a judges opinion. I haven't seen a trend to doggy bitches in the Midwest. I have seen more lightweight bitches that lack bone and have almost no cheek fill. Very lab looking.
__________________
Bill
Isabelle 1997-2004
Jemar's Serena RN, BH, CGC,TDI 02-06 (Major pointed)
Jemar's V. Anything Goes Little Loki RA, CGC 10-07
Corabella von der Aunkst 09-10
Reply With Quote


  #7  
Old 06-08-2011, 10:36 AM
BostonRott's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Location: Holliston, MA
Images: 7
Re: Doggy Bitches

Every single show is "a judge's opinion." We could easily trot out the discussion about a highly specialed CH who was later found to be missing multiple teeth at a Sieger show (oops!). Yet obviously many judges put him up. The standard for teeth is very well defined, and counting teeth is not hard, especially if done in groups.

Judges will do what politically benefits them, so that they get more assignments. Some will put up the best dog, others the best handler. Some read, know and follow the standard, others simply put up "what they like."

What a person (judge, or otherwise) "likes" is not what a breed is about. Its about following and trying to maintain the breed standard. Heading down any one path towards "my preference of X" does a great disservice to the breed, and disrespects its heritage.
__________________
Gretchen Caldwell
Vikka OA OAJ NAP Top 10 agility
Fizz CGC, HIs

Gone on:
Bort BH AD, Froli SchH2 AD BST OA AXJ CGC ARC VX, Top 10 agility, Banja NA NAJ Top 10 agility, Xcel CGC TT
Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
  #8  
Old 06-08-2011, 10:55 AM
JemarsSerena's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fountain, CO
Images: 38
Re: Doggy Bitches

I'm not trying disagree, just get educated. The tooth disqualification is clearly defined. I'm just trying to get a clearer picture of what the standard would define as a "doggy bitch".

If had never seen a rottweiler in my life and then read the standard, how would I know that a bitch is any different than a male other than being shorter? This is what confuses me. The standard does not call for any different characteristics in a bitch.

As Diane told me, the standard desrcibes the perfect male, but it never says that anywhere. For someone new to the breed that can be quite confusing.
__________________
Bill
Isabelle 1997-2004
Jemar's Serena RN, BH, CGC,TDI 02-06 (Major pointed)
Jemar's V. Anything Goes Little Loki RA, CGC 10-07
Corabella von der Aunkst 09-10
Reply With Quote


  #9  
Old 06-08-2011, 11:35 AM
JemarsSerena's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fountain, CO
Images: 38
Re: Doggy Bitches

The Rottweiler is neither coarse nor shelly. Depth of chest is approximately fifty percent (50%) of the height of the dog. His bone and muscle mass must be sufficient to balance his frame, giving a compact and very powerful appearance.

Does this apply to bitches as well?
__________________
Bill
Isabelle 1997-2004
Jemar's Serena RN, BH, CGC,TDI 02-06 (Major pointed)
Jemar's V. Anything Goes Little Loki RA, CGC 10-07
Corabella von der Aunkst 09-10
Reply With Quote


  #10  
Old 06-08-2011, 11:37 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Images: 2
Re: Doggy Bitches

I agree that "doggyness" is not described in relation to bitches, EXCEPT to say that bitches should essentially be smaller.

"Dogs are characteristically more massive throughout with larger frame and heavier bone than bitches. Bitches are distinctly feminine, but without weakness of substance or structure. "

Since they don't elaborate into secondary sex characteristics, I interpreted the standard to mean that the bitches should be structurally similar yet slightly smaller than the males. While I have seen a FEW very large bitches, I don't really see room in our standard to call them "doggy," only too large for standard. If there is a bitch in the ring that is 120 lbs and as big as all of the boys - she should be dismissed!

What I have been seeing more of is the very slight bitches, like JS said, that look almost lab size. None of the characteristic "presence" that we love about our rotties.
__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Reply With Quote


  #11  
Old 06-08-2011, 12:33 PM
JemarsSerena's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fountain, CO
Images: 38
Re: Doggy Bitches

Quote:
Originally Posted by mykidshavetails View Post
II interpreted the standard to mean that the bitches should be structurally similar yet slightly smaller than the males. While I have seen a FEW very large bitches, I don't really see room in our standard to call them "doggy," only too large for standard. If there is a bitch in the ring that is 120 lbs and as big as all of the boys - she should be dismissed!

What I have been seeing more of is the very slight bitches, like JS said, that look almost lab size. None of the characteristic "presence" that we love about our rotties.
I feel the same. When I see a rottweiler bitch, I still want her to exude "powerful" in every sense of the word. If I saw a 120lb bitch I would freak. That is WAY too big. The standard covers that though. I like a smaller compact bitch for working, but smaller does not have to mean slight or dainty. While Serena is not perfect, I love her size at 22" and 70-75lbs.

http://www.rottweiler.net/gallery/sh...&cutoffdate=-1
http://www.rottweiler.net/gallery/sh...&cutoffdate=-1

The 2nd pic, to me, says power.
__________________
Bill
Isabelle 1997-2004
Jemar's Serena RN, BH, CGC,TDI 02-06 (Major pointed)
Jemar's V. Anything Goes Little Loki RA, CGC 10-07
Corabella von der Aunkst 09-10
Reply With Quote


  #12  
Old 06-08-2011, 01:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston Texas/United States
Images: 37
Re: Doggy Bitches

Billy ~ I posted a picture in the gallery of Niko's dam. She might be considered doggy to some. I personally love her substance... but I am not a judge and only know what appealed to me.

Perhaps it is ignorance on my part. That is why a leave the breeding to the experts.

http://www.rottweiler.net/gallery/sh...hp?i=17726&c=2
__________________
Cindy ~ "My goal in life... is to be the sort of person my dogs think I am."

Niko ~ aka the Neeks Meister 07/10/2009
Simone ~ aka Princess Monie 11/20/2010
Chance ~ aka Widget 12/21/2013

Last edited by NikoJ; 06-08-2011 at 01:34 PM. Reason: adding link
Reply With Quote


  #13  
Old 06-08-2011, 01:50 PM
moondog's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Woodland Hills CA/USA
Images: 80
Re: Doggy Bitches

Cindy, I don't think Niko's dam looks doggie. Look up the dam that Noelle referred to (Ushi du Detroit Lancaster).....she does look doggie to me, especially due to her young age at the time of the photo (14 months). But then again, look at the awesome boy she produced (Noelle's Havoc) when thoughtfully bred to a male that compliments her. All the more to be said for breeders that know what they're doing!!
__________________
Patti....and.....

Chili von der Frolikind UDX3 OM3 RE NJP CGC
SilverHeart's StoryBook "Pippi"
BamBoo! of Rascaltown BOH^
^Sweet Angel Luna^ 1995-2004
Reply With Quote


2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
  #14  
Old 06-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston Texas/United States
Images: 37
Re: Doggy Bitches

Thanks Patti, that makes sense.
__________________
Cindy ~ "My goal in life... is to be the sort of person my dogs think I am."

Niko ~ aka the Neeks Meister 07/10/2009
Simone ~ aka Princess Monie 11/20/2010
Chance ~ aka Widget 12/21/2013
Reply With Quote


  #15  
Old 06-08-2011, 03:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: NC
Images: 13
Re: Doggy Bitches

Quote:
Originally Posted by moondog View Post
Cindy, I don't think Niko's dam looks doggie. Look up the dam that Noelle referred to (Ushi du Detroit Lancaster).....she does look doggie to me, especially due to her young age at the time of the photo (14 months). But then again, look at the awesome boy she produced (Noelle's Havoc) when thoughtfully bred to a male that compliments her. All the more to be said for breeders that know what they're doing!!
Makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NikoJ View Post
Billy ~ I posted a picture in the gallery of Niko's dam. She might be considered doggy to some. I personally love her substance... but I am not a judge and only know what appealed to me.

Perhaps it is ignorance on my part. That is why a leave the breeding to the experts.

http://www.rottweiler.net/gallery/sh...hp?i=17726&c=2

I think she looks good.
Reply With Quote


Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2 bitches ddloveskatie Behavior 15 04-04-2011 04:39 PM
Same age bitches?? (again) marianna Behavior 7 11-14-2007 11:16 AM
Two bitches AlphaLeader Behavior 9 10-17-2006 06:37 PM
The "Split Heat" Mystery / Bitches bringing other bitches 'in' TrishB Breeding 10 06-15-2005 09:02 PM
Bitches in PP cucciolone Working Rottweilers 3 08-05-2002 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:11 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

The thoughts expressed in the interviews and/or commentary contained within these forums are solely those of the individual(s) providing them and do not represent and/or reflect the opinions of Rottweiler Dot Net, it's parent site or it's affiliates.

Copyright © 1998 - 2013 Rottweiler Discussion Forums-All Rights Reserved - No part of this site may be reproduced without permission.