My dog killed another dog that ended up in my fenced in back yard (TX) Need legal advice.

[QuietDaze]

Janus's Mom - it occurred to me. And not so much about the little dog going after the rottie but what is the liability if the fence had a hole in it? I'm not an attorney or anything close but curious about that.

Either way, the dog entered her property and sounds like her dog didn't actually kill it, but that the vet killed it. What vet doesn't check for a puncture wound from another (and much bigger) dog??

I wouldn't even consider putting my dog down if he killed an animal in his own yard. Kane hates cats and I have no doubt that if he could catch one it would be history. I wouldn't like it but at the end of the day, it's survival of the fittest. If a cat can't run fast enough from my dog then that's too bad. OR if it chooses to ignore the barking and snarling, then again...too bad. OR if some irresponsible owner doesn't believe in keeping cats safe indoors...too bad.

[Janus'sMom]

Well if the little dog dug the hole to get under the fence, then I don't see how the OP is liable for anything. But that's just my opinion. Likewise, I'm as far from an attorney as they get. And I wouldn't think about putting my dog to sleep in this case. And if a cat is not smart enough to stay out of the yard of a dog, then that's just suicidal on the cat's part. Unless the poor cat falls off the fence into the yard and cant get back out, then it's just clumsiness on the cat's part. But another good point to keep cats indoors, both of my new kittens will never see the outdoors unless they're in a crate going for a ride to the vet's. Falling prey to a dog is one of the minor reasons cats should stay indoors, cars and not so intellegent people (and some kids) can be cruel to cats.

[QuietDaze]

What is the neighbor's attitude about all of this? Are they making noise as if it's your fault? Do they expect you to pay part of the vet costs? Did someone call A/C or something?

Yes, if the little dog dug under I can see how that wouldn't be her fault. But let's just suppose part of the fence was open or had a hole? Common sense would say to me...hmm, I have a small dog and there's a hole small enough for him to get through. The neighbor has a large dog...maybe I should make sure my dog can't get through. But that's just me.

LOL, I didn't even think about the clumsy cat scenario. That would be awful for the poor thing. I hope no one misinterprets what I am saying as far as dogs killing cats. I'm not heartless, and if Kane wasn't so aggressive towards them I would have one. So I don't hate them but these are animals we're talking about. When you are 'prey' self preservation should be their first order of business.

[observer]

As far as your legal rights, you have to go see a lawyer. Your questions should include not only what your rights/responsibilities are, given that your own dog was kept secure in your own fenced yard, and the liability of the third party here, the vet.

[Janus'sMom]

LOL. I saw the clumsy cat scenario first hand. I had a bitch pitt bull mix that loved to put on a big front and chase cats in the yard till she got about 3 feet from them, then she'd tuck tail and come running back to me if they turned to face her. So that's when the fence went up. Thankfully for the scared cat there was a tree in the corner of the yard that it climbed up and hopped over the fence to get out. I haven't seen the cat ontop of the fence since (maybe it learned it's lesson).

Sorry this was off topic.

[jemarspujo]

So, the full story goes like this. We have 2 dogs who spend the majority of their time outdoors as we have a 9 month old baby at home. One is a Rottie who is somewhat dog aggressive as he is unneutered; he is not let out of our yard without a leash or adequate supervision. we have a 4.5 ft fence with a pad lock on the gate so that nobody goes in or out without our knowledge. there is also a "beware of dog" sign on the gate.

We had guests with a 8 y/o girl who was outside playing with the dogs. the little girl next door, also 8 y/o had a white, old, 10 lb. dog which they were dogsitting for a few weeks. our guest wanted to pet the little dog and so they decided to pass the little dog over the fence to our yard. well, there was no adult supervision in either yard but i am sure Pujo was standing there with ears up waiting for that dog to come over the fence. anyway, i suspect that the little dog freaked out and squirmed as it was being passed to our yard with awaiting dogs 1000% larger but again there was no adult present so we are unsure. the girls claim that Pujo jumped up so we are not sure if they dropped the dog but it is certainly unlike our dog to snatch things. it was not a kill attack, he didn't shake, he played with the dog like a squeeky toy. i stopped him by pining him down. the dog clearly had puncture wounds to the thorax and should have been evaluated properly by the emergency vet who charges absurd fees. at any rate, the little dog passed away 2 days later.

I love animals and i can only imagine the hurt that these people will feel as a result of the loss of their dog but the fact remains that their dog got into our yard due to inadequate supervision of the dog and kids who don't think things through. the neighbors have mentioned that they are concerned for the saftey of both people and animals in the neighborhood and we politely reiterated that our gate is pad locked and our dogs are well controlled verbally and physically by us. we cannot control what happens when other things enter our yard without our knowledge.


Cliff's notes: neighbors kid passed small dog to a little girl in our yard so that she could play with him, our Rottie attacked the small dog. no adults present on either side. no injury to children. improper veterinary care led to death 2 days later.


Question: should i be concerned about the saftey of my baby? Pujo is very careful around her, lays near her as if to watch and protect her and has always done that. he puts his ears back and lays down in front of her and she tugs on him and follows him around the house and he just licks her. he has also been great with any child we ever had visiting. i have not been concerned in the past but now i know what he is capable of. does dog aggression ever turn to child aggression?

[Anne]

I would be very concerned about the safety of any children if you are not prepared to supervise them when they are with the dogs. No children should EVER be allowed to be around dogs without adult supervision.

What were you thinking to allow your guests child to play in your yard with your dogs?
What were the child's parents thinking to allow their child to play unsupervised with your dogs?

a) all adults present are responsible for what happened for not supervising children around dogs. Not just the neighbors supervision but you are also at fault. Even moreso for allowing an 8yo visiting child alone in your yard with your dogs.

b) your fences are inadequate to contain a large dog. 4.5ft fences won't keep anyone out. Neither will such a small fence keep your dog in if he wants to get out.

This would not have happened if you had been supervising the child with your dogs. What eventuated is the fault of the adults. Not the dogs and not the children.

The full story now changes my view of the situation.

[Cdn1050]

Originally Posted by Anne

I would be very concerned about the safety of any children if you are not prepared to supervise them when they are with the dogs. No children should EVER be allowed to be around dogs without adult supervision.

What were you thinking to allow your guests child to play in your yard with your dogs?
What were the child's parents thinking to allow their child to play unsupervised with your dogs?

a) all adults present are responsible for what happened for not supervising children around dogs. Not just the neighbors supervision but you are also at fault. Even moreso for allowing an 8yo visiting child alone in your yard with your dogs.

b) your fences are inadequate to contain a large dog. 4.5ft fences won't keep anyone out. Neither will such a small fence keep your dog in if he wants to get out.

This would not have happened if you had been supervising the child with your dogs. What eventuated is the fault of the adults. Not the dogs and not the children.

The full story now changes my view of the situation.

I agree 100% with Anne's comment. Why would you leave a child unsupervised outside to play with your dogs. My dog wouldn't hurt my kids or any kids, but I never leave her unsupervised around anybody, not even adults.

A 4.5 ft. tall fence isn't adequate enough to keep large breed dogs contained. I know for a fact my dog can jump anything that's 4.5 ft. with ease. Your neighbours have every right to be concerned with how these dogs are being contained.

[webangel2b]

Dogs being Dogs - where the heck will you draw the line?

So if that little 10 pound dog would have been a 10 pound baby - you guys would not consider PTS. I don't see a difference. I don't like the idea of my dog getting the "sense/pleasure" from killing. If this dog would have KILLED the dog right off and it was mine PTS would be strongly considered.

This was a tragic accident that should have been prevented. So I think the OP needs to pay up. He is responsible for what happened because the children involved were not supervised. BAD, BAD decision - I can't imagine what they must be feeling right now. How unnecessarly tragic for them!

[QuietDaze]

Thanks for the additional details, no adult supervision on either side may be a wash but you should probably still contact an attorney. Both sets of adults were negligent. I hate to repeat what everyone else has said but 4.5 feet isn't very high for a rottie to EASILY jump if they wanted to. Try not to get lulled by the fact that they may not be showing signs of wanting out - best thing is to ensure they can't.

I'm sure you also realize by now not to leave any child alone with a dog. This is not to say that your dogs are all of a sudden going attack the baby or your children but if you aren't there to supervise, you never know what might irritate the dog. If you're not there and watching, you'll never know when the dog has had enough attention. Or if the dog decides that the childrens toys are now 'his' and doesn't want to give it up, etc etc etc.

Did I read correctly that the small dog didn't even belong to your neighbor? Wow, that's even more unfortunate. Hopefully, you'll take their concerns seriously and you'll still be able to have a decent relationship.

[brunie's mom]

This is a very bad situation.
Two dogs living mostly outdoor (because you have a baby??)....very silly reason for them to have to live outside.
Dogs that spend so much time alone start making their own rules. You have an intact, dog aggressive dog...and only a 4.5 foot fence.
You let an 8 year old child play outside alone in your yard with your dogs??
Terrible idea.
Lack of supervision at both homes.

Please get a higher fence, start allowing your dogs to live in your home....and NEVER let anyone but your own family out with your dogs unless you are right there.

Adults in both homes are to blame and a dog died because of it.

Gina

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by jemarspujo

So, the full story goes like this. We have 2 dogs who spend the majority of their time outdoors as we have a 9 month old baby at home. One is a Rottie who is somewhat dog aggressive as he is unneutered; he is not let out of our yard without a leash or adequate supervision. we have a 4.5 ft fence with a pad lock on the gate so that nobody goes in or out without our knowledge. there is also a "beware of dog" sign on the gate.

It helps you get good answers when you give us good and full information to begin with.

Having a baby is not a good reason for banishing dogs to the great outdoors, and leaving them unsupervised with less family interaction.

A 4.5 foot fence will not keep any self respecting unsupervised rottweiler contained. You're VERY lucky your dog has not gotten out and mauled other dogs.

We had guests with a 8 y/o girl who was outside playing with the dogs. the little girl next door, also 8 y/o had a white, old, 10 lb. dog which they were dogsitting for a few weeks. our guest wanted to pet the little dog and so they decided to pass the little dog over the fence to our yard. well, there was no adult supervision in either yard but i am sure Pujo was standing there with ears up waiting for that dog to come over the fence.

This was a disaster waiting to happen. Why? NO ADULT SUPERVISION

I'm sure Pujo was waiting very eagerly waiting for his present.

anyway, i suspect that the little dog freaked out and squirmed as it was being passed to our yard with awaiting dogs 1000% larger but again there was no adult present so we are unsure.

I would have been freaking out too if I had been the dog, as he likely knew what your dog's intentions were BEFORE the 8 year old girls unwittingly led him to his death. Poor little bastard.

the girls claim that Pujo jumped up so we are not sure if they dropped the dog but it is certainly unlike our dog to snatch things.

I'm sure the girls are telling the truth. You have already stated your male is dog aggressive, and the girls just popped another dog into his territory without proper introductions, from over head. Sigh.

it was not a kill attack, he didn't shake, he played with the dog like a squeeky toy.

If the dog died, it was a kill attack. Don't sugar coat it.

i stopped him by pining him down. the dog clearly had puncture wounds to the thorax and should have been evaluated properly by the emergency vet who charges absurd fees. at any rate, the little dog passed away 2 days later.

I have been reading this thread with interest from the beginning. I cannot tell you how absurd it is to blame the veterinarian for the death of this dog, or for that matter, to complain about the price the veterinarian charged.

Plain and simple, this dog's demise was due to lack of proper supervision. The dog didn't die because of mal practice by the vet, the dog died because of mal practice by his owners.

I love animals and i can only imagine the hurt that these people will feel as a result of the loss of their dog but the fact remains that their dog got into our yard due to inadequate supervision of the dog and kids who don't think things through.

BINGO. The fact remains that YOU, the owner of the rottweiler allowed children to play UNSUPERVISED in your yard. Because of this, the children did what children do - play. Children of this age should NEVER be put into the position these girls were put in.

You are damn lucky your dog is clear headed enough not to redirect his aggression from the task at hand (killing the small dog!), and that he did not accidentally bite your company's daughter, or your neighbor's daughter.

the neighbors have mentioned that they are concerned for the saftey of both people and animals in the neighborhood and we politely reiterated that our gate is pad locked and our dogs are well controlled verbally and physically by us. we cannot control what happens when other things enter our yard without our knowledge.

Your neighbors have every right to be concerned. You need a six foot wood fence, preferably with no gate.

Your dog is not people aggressive, but let's think about things responsibly; if your dog gets over your 4 1/2 foot fence and goes after a dog that's being walked down your street, there could definitely be collateral damage to a human trying to break up a dog fight, so in that respect, they have every right to be concerned.

Cliff's notes: neighbors kid passed small dog to a little girl in our yard so that she could play with him, our Rottie attacked the small dog. no adults present on either side. no injury to children. improper veterinary care led to death 2 days later.

Again, you're damn lucky there was no redirection of aggression, and that your boy has a stable temperament.

Question: should i be concerned about the saftey of my baby? Pujo is very careful around her, lays near her as if to watch and protect her and has always done that. he puts his ears back and lays down in front of her and she tugs on him and follows him around the house and he just licks her. he has also been great with any child we ever had visiting. i have not been concerned in the past but now i know what he is capable of. does dog aggression ever turn to child aggression?

You should ONLY be concerned about the safety of your baby if you continue to supervise your dog around children the way you have been.

Use common sense and practice safe habits with dogs and children. Do not allow the baby on the floor with the dog. LEARN about dog behavior, body language and such.

Your dog was capable of killing an animal WAY before this incident. Now you know for a fact that your dog is indeed a normal, healthy dog. Learn how to be a more responsible dog owner. [notice I didn't mention a breed! this goes for all dog owners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

For your children, for your neighbors, and for the sake of this breed.

I hope you have a good attorney.

[QuietDaze]

Poohbear - I'm curious as to why you think the vet bears no responsibility at all? Of course the adults in this situation allowed it to happen by not watching their kids and dogs, that goes without saying. But if my dog is attacked and I take it to a vet, do I not have a reasonable expectation that my dog will be checked for puncture wounds? Isn't it possible that if the vet did that and treated accordingly that my dog may live?

PS I'm also considering the fact that we don't know exactly what happened at the vet. The neighbors were just babysitting the dog. Maybe the vet suggested that they leave him overnight, surgery, whatever and they didn't do it for whatever reason. So my question to you is only as the situation was presented.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by QuietDaze

Poohbear - I'm curious as to why you think the vet bears no responsibility at all? Of course the adults in this situation allowed it to happen by not watching their kids and dogs, that goes without saying. But if my dog is attacked and I take it to a vet, do I not have a reasonable expectation that my dog will be checked for puncture wounds? Isn't it possible that if the vet did that and treated accordingly that my dog may live?

PS I'm also considering the fact that we don't know exactly what happened at the vet. The neighbors were just babysitting the dog. Maybe the vet suggested that they leave him overnight, surgery, whatever and they didn't do it for whatever reason. So my question to you is only as the situation was presented.

A veterinarian is responsible for giving reasonable care. Many people in this thread have spouted off about the veterinarian.

Puncture wounds can be VERY difficult to find, first of all. And secondly, if the dog was not having trouble breathing at the time, there would likely be no reason to suspect a punctured lung.

Bottom line, and all that aside... had there been adequate (or any) supervision, this situation would not have occured, thus, the need to go to the emergency vet would not have been.

We all, as dog owners need to look at this situation, and our own dog management. It is incidents like this one that give our breed one more black mark. What are each and every one of us doing to prevent incidents (notice I did not say "accident") like this from occuring? This should be a learning experience not only for the OP, but for anyone and everyone that reads this thread.

You can bet your bottom dollar the neighbor has been spewing off to all their friends and family and the lady at the supermarket checkout counter about the "aggressive rottweilers" in their neighbors yard. What many people fail to understand that animal aggression rarely anything to do with human aggression, but that's not going to be discussed.

Unfortunately, the adults left the adult decision up to children and a dog.

[Debbie Ervin]

I have just read this whole tread, and I can't see why anyone would leave dogs of any kind unsupervised with children!! I have owned Rottweiler males my whole life. NEVER under any circumstance would I leave my granddaughter and my Hogan(who are best friends)alone together! 2nd- why are these dogs living outside? because of the baby? Do you not know that Rottweilers have to be socialized and part of the family in order to really thrive at their best! Leaving them out and not part of the mix is WRONG and I believe will lead to more agression. 3rd- only a 6 ft fence is adequite for a large breed dog and for neighbors to feel safe. I understand accidents or insidents can happen but for Gods sake they can be prevented by having good sense.