People are so ignorant

[lengel]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

HUH? A three week old pup is hardly aggressive. They are *just* becoming aware of their surroundings!!!!! Hell, the brainwaves don't start waving until 21 days! Whoever deems a 3 week old puppy aggressive needs to be put down. Talk about trigger happy!

I don't know what happened to that particular litter. What the shelter director said was that she's never seen that level of aggression in a three week old puppy before. The golden that a different person recommended put down was eight weeks old. I just wanted to clarify that these were different pups at different ages. I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been.

[JoJo]

Talk about trigger happy!

No Pooh, we are talking about IGNORANT people not STUPID trigger happy fools!!!

It's a shame you didn't speak up and give that receptionist a bit of an education. I know I would have. Course I'm always on a soap box when the situation arises.

[skigod377]

Originally Posted by Mick Trainer

Do people not understand that any dog banished to the back yard can turn aggressive? You are right about ignorant comments. People make them all the time. The fact that the dog is in the back yard has precisly zero to do with it turning aggressive. Many things trigger aggression but being in the back yard instead of in the house is not one of them. Mick.

Sorry Mick, but you are so very wrong. A dog shut out in a back yard or confined to a house becomes territorial and therefore, potentially aggressive. Being an outside dog with not much room is a very common denominator when it comes to dog aggression and what can cause it.

As for the original post, im afraid we have all dealt with that kind of stupidity. Hopefully one day, we can get past it.

[Cdn1050]

I probably would have spoken up and said something to the receptionist. A few doors down from my house, a new neighbour moved in 2 years ago and got a Golden Lab. Every time I walk pass their house, their Golden comes barking and runs right to the edge of the property line. I always make sure I'm across the street with Neyla. The neighbour comes out and yells to his dog "leave that dog alone, he'll tear you to shreds." First my dog is not a he, she's a female. Second, she's not aggressive, it's a sterotype people have of Rottweilers as being viscious non-family dogs. I would never in this situation open my mouth and say anything to my neighbour. Not to sterotype my neighbour or his friends, but he's a very big biker dude, who owns a shop fixing Harley's. I just smile at him and his friends, and keep on walking.

[nancyhq]

Hi. I'm not surprised by this. Sometimes people don't think for themselves. This attitude makes me sad. I worked for a vet for years and before that did animal rescue. Over the years I've seen a few very aggressive dogs. Never has it been a specific breed! And rarley has it not been caused by people. I always felt sorry for the owners who took on a beautiful puppy with horrible breeding. Oddly enough, the most aggressive dog I came accross was a lab. It was so sad because typically they are beautiful dogs with wonderful and sweet personalities. This one had been very neglected. I hope your dog is feeling better. Sorry you had to hear this type of ignorant conversation. I kow it's frustrating.
nancy

[annamack]

Ack some labs are aggressive I have one next door.. I hate letting my kids outside when hes out, Cooped up all day out only too pee maybe three times aday no one is there with him no classes no socialization just wainting for the accident to happen .

[Shane]

I grew up with a lab who ended up being put down after his THIRD bite. My parents have been educated since that time.

[Gudrun's Mom]

When ever a breed is popular the indiscrimiate breeding goes rampant. Temperament and health factors are not even consider as money is the driving force. Many people want to own that particular breed just because it's in vogue and they do not provide the proper time necessary to own a dog. Like others mentioned a neglected dog is a time bomb no matter what the breed.

In my area the "bully" dog of the neighborhood is a Chow. He has bitten several people, attacked several dogs plus it's not safe to be a cat in this area. Yet, when people walk past him and don't know him they thinks he's so cute and not threatening. It amazes me that the general population think cute and fluffy means non agressive.

[Missmeliss57]

I really just cant stand the ignorance associated with rottweilers, pits etc. I want to puke when people make comments about my big baby when we are walking down the street!
and FYI: my rottie's best friend is a yellow lab who is 20 lbs smaller than her and she actually got nasty and bit my baby in the face, my girl ran full force all the way to my front door and sat there panic-ing, as to say " Momma hurry let me in". Now who is the dangerous one?

[Mick Trainer]

Originally Posted by skigod377

Sorry Mick, but you are so very wrong. A dog shut out in a back yard or confined to a house becomes territorial and therefore, potentially aggressive. Being an outside dog with not much room is a very common denominator when it comes to dog aggression and what can cause it.

Well I must beg to differ. There is no doubt once a dog has become familiar with spending a lot of time a particular area that most dogs will take on some degree of territorialness towards that area. However this can be both inside and outside of a house and either will make no difference. In real terms what makes a dog territorially aggressive is based on the dogs genetic make up and it's individual territorialness. The vast majority of dogs can spend large amounts of time in one area and whilst they might feel territorial over the area will show little or no aggression towards strangers who enter the area as their genetics do not make them capable of this or they feel little or no real threat from the person entering the area. Thus such dogs even though left will react very little regarding true territorial aggression. However dogs also exist that have a strong level of territorialness genetically and these dogs will show a very quick trigger to seek to defend an area even after spending little time in such a place. My current GSD is such a dog. I was his 4th home by 11 months of age as others could not handle him. Within three days he was very uncomfotable with anyone entering the premises outside of myself and my wife. Such dogs are quite rare now days but still the desire to defend an area is based more on the genetics of the individual dog than whether the dog has spend long periods within it. However there is little doubt that the longer time a dog spends in one area the more comfortable he/she comes in it and the more desire he/she will have to defend it. However this could be the case whether the dog is in a house or in a yard. It makes little difference.

Now there is little doubt that a dog left with little or no influence upon it has a greater propensity to have behavioral problems of all types, aggression being one of them. However, where the dog spends it's time when it is away from the owner, whether outside or in, has little influence upon this aggression but rather it is based on the amount of time away, the quality of the time when together, the socialisation of the animal, understanding of behavior and training techniques that the owner has. A dog that spends a large portion or all it's time away from the owner/handler outside but is handled often, taken out and socialised properly, trained correctly does not have a higher propensity to aggression problems than one who spends it's time away from the handler in the house especially if this time away is largely spend confined to a crate as many people do.

Now you right Being an outside dog with not much room is a very common denominator when it comes to dog aggression and what can cause it. Whilst being confined to a small area and having little interaction with other dogs will indeed greatly negatively influence how a dog interacts with other dogs. However such aggression is based upon fear from a lack of positive interation with the other dogs and not upon the location of the confinement that the dog has undertaken. It is the removal of a dog from common social situations that greatly increases the fear that a dog feels towards other dogs. Again whether a dog spends its time away from the ownersinside a house or in a back yard has little influence upon this fear. The greatest influence upon such aggression is a dog's nerve development and it's socialisation.

Now I am more than willing to conceed on the whole that most dogs that live within a house will have greater interaction with the owner/handler than those placed outside of the house and this will give them a greater chance of being trained correctly, socialised etc yet it is not the confinement outside that is the problem it is the lack of all the other factors that creates such a problem. This includes long term confinement to a crate. This would create the same level of temperament problems as being in a back yard.

Out of the hundreds of aggression problems I have fixed in my work I have never cured one by moving the dog from outside the house to inside, nor have I found any great percentage increase in aggression problems with dogs that are raised and now live outside of the house than those that have been raised inside the house. Infact if anything I get more call outs to people with aggression problems with dogs that live full time within the house as such people are more prone to accepting and excusing the behavior than those whos dogs live outside but it isn't a massive difference. Dogs become aggressive because of a combination of poor handling and poor genetics. This can easily be the case whether the dog lives in or outside the house.

Mick.

[skigod377]

You are right. As you said, most dogs who live outside are less socialized and therefore, more inclined to bite. I am only speaking statistics. The majority of dog bites are caused my unneutered, male dogs who live outside... usually chained. IMO, that means that outside dogs are more inclined to bite, simply because they are less social. Are there exceptions to every rule? Of course. It is still a major commanality among bite statistics and you cannot overlook that.

[Mick Trainer]

It is still a major commanality among bite statistics Can you please supply the statistics that you speak of? In particular the ones that show the relationship between dog bites and dog that are kept outside.

Mick.

[annamack]

I think we took over the op's post, and are now debating on what are some causes to aggression.

To the poster: I think you did the right thing... Just letting it fly in one ear and out the other, do to the fact that we are biased we own our dogs and love the breed, but tell me if the owner of that lab had a rottie instead, and the lady was bit, would it be because of the breed or because the owner neglected the dog or it has genetic defficiency that causes it to be aggressive. My feelings and folks these are mine everyone is entitled. I dont think its the breed of any dog I believe that with the proper guidence and ob and socialization that anyone can have a well rounded dog, it depends on the owners of the dog to teach it and guide it to be this well rounded dog.

As for dogs living outside well I dont know, during the summer months mine are both outside in kennels during the days or in the house here when its to hot or at night, my dogs are good dogs I dont feel they would ever harm anyone or another animal less it was a cat, ( working on that) But I will always be aware of the surrounding when out in public or out in the front yard were there is not fenced yard, do to the fact that there is always somthing out there that will trigger any dog to do somthing out of character,there is always that one time the first time the omg time.. No matter the breed, could even be one of our dogs one day, could even be one of yours.

Sorry this might be jumbled up and confusing but just got of double shift at the home.
Goodmorning or Goodnight
Sue

[skigod377]

Originally Posted by Mick Trainer

It is still a major commanality among bite statistics Can you please supply the statistics that you speak of? In particular the ones that show the relationship between dog bites and dog that are kept outside.

Mick.

Fatal Dog Attacks by Karen Delise has some very good information on the common traits among dogs who bite. In there you will find information on the numbers of dogs who bite that had "outside dog" as a description. Maybe this has to do with strangers being outside, and thats who dogs may be more likely to bite, but either way, the statistic is there. Most other dog bit websites will have this information as well, if you choose to do internet research instead. I wrote a paper for college on BSL, and this was one of my topics. I researched it extensively and have many resources. If you would like me to post links, I can go find them. Just let me know.

[clsmallwood]

Mick.

Good write up, but I'm sure the poster said BANISHED to the backyard. When I hear banished I seem to think the dog was put outside and had no true interaction with humans including training or socialization