dialogue- propsed ARC mandatory practices revision

[frontierrots]

I would like to open a dialogue about these. Got them in the mail today

I'll only quote the changed/suggested changes on the printout we got

Personally I wish we would be able to vote on each SUBJECT/section and not on the document as a whole.

"These mandatory practices and recommendations are established in accordance with the objectives of the American Rottweiler Club. there are 3 sections in this document: mandatory practices for ALL members; Mandatory practices for BREEDERS; Recommendations for BREEDERS.Mandatory practices must be adhered to and recommendations are strongly encouraged."

I have no problem with this

"Introduction: the Rottweiler is above all a working dog and must exhibit the temperament, intelligence and structure of a working companion. The physical appearance should be as described in the current AKC Rottweiler standard"

Again no problem. This just eliminates the need to change this each time the standard is changed

"Section 1. Mandatory Practices for ALL ARC members.
As an ARC member I shall adhere to the following mandatory practices"

Makes sense to me

"#5. The American Rottweiler club members shall dock tails on Rottweiler puppies within 7 days of birth whenever feasible. No member of the ARC shall dock any Rottweiler without proper veterinary, surgical and pain care after 7 days of birth"

This one I have a problem with. No I am a die hard docked Rottweiler fan and do not foresee having a tailed Rottweiler nor foresee that I will stop docking puppy tails. HOWEVER. This section reads like ALL ARC members MUST dock the tails of their Rottweilers. Also, It STILL allows for people who import tailed dogs to dock them.

A) If someone wants to have a tailed Rottweiler I see NO problem with it. IF they want to show a tailed Rott again no problem. IF they want to leave the tails on their pups, so what?

B) if you import a tailed dog then by God it should stay tailed. Docking after 7 days of age should be totally banned! If you want a docked dog then for God's sake buy a docked puppy/dog.

"#6. Encourage members to participate in health studies which are listed by the Rottweiler health Foundation. (www.rottweilerhealth.org)"

Again, of course

"#7. The ARC membership list is for member's personal and club use only. It is not to be sold or given away, nor is it to be encompassed into any personal or business database"

Wish this had been in place in the past!

"Section 2. Mandatory practices for breeders
As an ARC member whose dog or bitch is used for breeding purposes, I shall adhere to the following mandatory practices"

#1. Study and strive to conserve and improve the breed in structure, health, temperament, and working ability, never sacrificing one for the others"

That sounds fine

"#2. Plan all litters with the goal of improving the breed, giving consideration to individual health benefits and concerns. Breed only AKC registered mature dogs and bitches which are no less than 2 years of age, have passed all required health tests, have stable temperament and no disqualifying physical faults according to the AKC Rottweiler standard (ie entropion, overshot, undershot, wry mouth, 2 or more missing teeth, unilateral cryptorchid or cryptorchid males, long coat, any base color other than black, absence of all markings)."

Makes perfect sense to me. The statement "have passed all required health tests" though is a contradiction to recommendation # 1 wherein it mentions using grade 1 or 2 elbows- I'll address that there

"#3. In the interest of full disclosure of any identified health issues, any dog or bitch to be bred (born after January 1, 2008) must have a CHIC certificate which provides a source of health information for owners, breeders and scientists that will assist in breeding healthy dogs. CHIC is meant to encourage health testing and sharing of all results, normal and abnormal, so that more informed breeding decisions can be made in an overall effort to reduce the incidence of genetic disease and improve canine health. CHIC requires permanent identification (microchip or tattoo) and for Rottweilers requires that the following evaluations are done and results released regardless of pass or failure: (OFA hip and elbow, heart and CERF)"

I think this is a good idea but suspect many will balk at this one. Also why dogs born after 1/2008? Why not all dogs still alive? Or at the least dogs born after jan 1, 2007? This may be too large of a step for many, especially when many are testing, not releasing the results of fails and breeding anyway. Personally I'd be happy with a beginning step of hips and heart at minimum and the rest at the next step/revision

"#4. Dog and bitch to be bred (born after january 1, 2008) must be OFA cardiac "normal". It is strongly recommended that the evaluation be performed by a Board Certified cardiologist"

This is great. BUT since practitioner certifications are not really worth the paper they are printed on, this really should say that the certification MUST be by cardiologist!

"#5. Dog and bitch to be bred (born after january 1, 2008) must have a current CERF certification, dated no more than 12 months prior to breeding. The certification is good for 12 months from the date of the exam and afterwards the dog must be re-examined and re-certified to maintain it's registration with CERF"

Good in theory however the board certified opthalmologist I use for CERF exams and his colleagues maintain that in OUR breed, Rottweilers, that an exam as an adult- preferably two as an adult (meaning over 12 months of age), are sufficient and that yearly re CERFs are a waste of $$ I am certainly more likely to follow their advice than that of some random board

"#6a Dog and bitch to be bred must have an OFA hip rating of fair or better (OR HD-free hips as certified by foreign counterparts of the OFA). Imported Rottweilers used for breeding must have OFA hip rating of fair or better within 6 months after arrival in the USA or at no less than 24 months of age. IF semen is used from a foreign Rottweiler, the dog must be xrayed and have a hip rating of fair or better by the OFA or foreign counterpart at no less than 24 months of age"

The first part is pretty much what we already have (and what people don't do) in that an imported dog has to have it's hips re done after 24 months in order to breed. And I like this. If you import a dog it's really not hard to have it's health certificates done here.

The second part though will eliminate almost ALL use of foreign dogs as there are almost NO Countries that xray dogs after 2 years of age. 12-18 months is the norm. No (or few) stud owner is going to re xray their dog that does NOT live in the US after he turns 2 years just so that US breeders will be able to use him.

"OR
#6b. Dog and bitch to be bred must have an OFA hip rating of fair or better , or a PennHIP distraction index rating of .50 or lower per hip (OR HD-free hips as certified by foreign counterparts of the OFA). Imported Rottweilers used for breeding must have OFA hip rating of fair or better within 6 months after arrival in the USA or at no less than 24 months of age. IF semen is used from a foreign Rottweiler, the dog must be xrayed and have a hip rating of fair or better by the OFA or foreign counterpart at no less than 24 months of age"

I do not like the allowance of Pennhip because there is NO WAY to verify this rating. PENNHIP has no searchable database and they will NOT confirm hip ratings

"#7. If a bitch is bred consecutively, it shall be no more than 2 consecutive seasons. Bitches bred to more then 1 sire during a single season must adhere to the AKC regulations (http://www.akc.org/dna/multisire.cfm)"

Absolutely. Multi sire litters are horrifically expensive but if AKC allows it than the ARC should too

"#12. Breeders recognize that they have a LIFETIME responsibility for puppies produced by their brood bitch or stud dog. Breeders and stud dog owners recognize the inherent obligation to provide a stable environment that protects each puppy's physical and emotional well being.This includes helping to relocate to a new home a puppy (or adult dog) with which the owner is dissatisfied, or taking that puppy (or adult dog) back. ANY provisions for refunds or reimbursement of expense shall be handled in the contract between breeder and owner. Unless required to do so by law, no puppy or adult dog bred or owned by an ARC member shall be disposed of in an animal shelter or pound or knowingly be allowed to remain in the care of a rescue organization"

here, here! far too many breeders refuse any client service or aid after the sale!

"Section Recommendations for breeders
As an ARC member whose dog or bitch is used for breeding purposes, I shall abide by these recommendations to the best of my ability

#1. In an attempt to lower the incidence of elbow dysplasia in Rottweilers it is strongly recommended to breed only normal elbows to normal elbows, or Grade 1 and 2 to Normal elbows (for the purpose of maintaining a broader gene pool)"

I have an argument with this one. While most breeders will use a dog with DJD 1 elbows, especially if this is unilateral; to state that using a Grade 1 or 2 dog without stipulating DJD ONLY is fool hardy. using a dog with Grade 1 or 2 FCP, UAP or OCD in the elbows is very very risky because these are shown to be inherited. The use of dogs with "only" DJD 1 (not DJD 2 just DJD 1) is a FAR different proposition!


"#2. It is strongly recommended that all dogs and bitches used for breeding should have an AKC DNA profile"

Absolutely!

"#3. it is strongly recommended that prior to breeding, consideration be given to disorders that may have a genetic component, including but not limited to, von Willebrand's disease, cruciate ligament injuries, hypothyroidism, and orthopedic disorders such os Osteochondritis

#4. It is strongly recommended that prospective breeding candidates and their immediate relatives are not affected with (or carriers of) hereditary disease for which there is diagnostic testing

#5. It is strongly recommended that Dogs be limited to 24 or fewer breedings (resulting in 3 or more live puppies) in a 12 month period to allow opportunity to realize their contribution (both positive and negative) to the gene pool. Note: Dogs semen can be collected and stored allowing them to produce puppies long after their life has ended"

Seem like common sense

"#6. It is strongly recommended that all members of the American Rottweiler Club give a donation of $100 for each stud fee they receive. They may donate to any Rottweiler organization of their choice including the American Rottweiler Club Legislative Fund, Rottweiler Health Foundation, or Rottweiler Rescue Foundation

#7. It is strongly recommended that all members of the American Rottweiler Club give a donation of $50 for every litter they produce (3 or more live puppies). They may donate to any Rottweiler organization of their choice including the American Rottweiler Club Legislative Fund, Rottweiler Health Foundation, or Rottweiler Rescue Foundation "

Sounds pleasant but I know many breeders will not do this.

[mikimm]

Thank you Frontierrots for clarifying some of the issues here. I just got this in the mail. Being new to the ARC and the broader rottie world including breeders and show folk, this helps me consider the document with more understanding. I also agree that it would have been better to be able to comment on each point individually rather than approve the document as a whole.

[frontierrots]

actually they are taking comments now, see the cover letter. We won't vote on it for awhile yet

[poohbearsmom]

I haven't received mine yet.

I just perused your post, and am digesting it before making further comment.

Will contribute and comment later.

[Anton]

Personally I wish we would be able to vote on each SUBJECT/section and not on the document as a whole.

I agree Diane !! There are some really good changes in there, and a couple I don't like. It says to write to the ARC newsletter editor with your comments/concerns--and this sounds like a good concern !!

"#5. The American Rottweiler club members shall dock tails on Rottweiler puppies within 7 days of birth whenever feasible. No member of the ARC shall dock any Rottweiler without proper veterinary, surgical and pain care after 7 days of birth"

This one I have a problem with. No I am a die hard docked Rottweiler fan and do not foresee having a tailed Rottweiler nor foresee that I will stop docking puppy tails. HOWEVER. This section reads like ALL ARC members MUST dock the tails of their Rottweilers. Also, It STILL allows for people who import tailed dogs to dock them.

A) If someone wants to have a tailed Rottweiler I see NO problem with it. IF they want to show a tailed Rott again no problem. IF they want to leave the tails on their pups, so what?

B) if you import a tailed dog then by God it should stay tailed. Docking after 7 days of age should be totally banned! If you want a docked dog then for God's sake buy a docked puppy/dog.

AMEN !!! AMEN !! AMEN !!!

#1. In an attempt to lower the incidence of elbow dysplasia in Rottweilers it is strongly recommended to breed only normal elbows to normal elbows, or Grade 1 and 2 to Normal elbows (for the purpose of maintaining a broader gene pool)"

I have an argument with this one. While most breeders will use a dog with DJD 1 elbows, especially if this is unilateral; to state that using a Grade 1 or 2 dog without stipulating DJD ONLY is fool hardy. using a dog with Grade 1 or 2 FCP, UAP or OCD in the elbows is very very risky because these are shown to be inherited. The use of dogs with "only" DJD 1 (not DJD 2 just DJD 1) is a FAR different proposition!

I don't believe a DJD 2 in one or both elbows should be bred. I do agree that the gene pool is shrinking, but making DJD 2 elbows a reason for "maintaining a broader gene pool" is a poor excuse, when the puppies of these breedings are also developing DJD 2 elbows. How is that improving anything? At least keeping the elbows at DJD 1 or better, will be moving in the right direction.

And stating that if you do have a Grade 1 or 2, that you breed to 'normal elbows'. If grade 1 or 2 is good enough to breed, then choosing a partner with the "acceptable" elbow readings should be up to the breeder.

There are definitely some good changes, and some that need to be readdressed. And the main thing is to vote on each change individually and not as a whole.

[frontierrots]

I have been told that each section will be voted on seperately like we did with the last long document we voted on recently. YEAH!

[mikimm]

if you import a tailed dog then by God it should stay tailed. Docking after 7 days of age should be totally banned! If you want a docked dog then for God's sake buy a docked puppy/dog.

YES! In my opinion, it's always best to avoid surgery. And docking an older dog's tail is an amputation--with all the accompanying risks of surgery.

[Carol Burke]

"#5. The American Rottweiler club members shall dock tails on Rottweiler puppies within 7 days of birth whenever feasible. No member of the ARC shall dock any Rottweiler without proper veterinary, surgical and pain care after 7 days of birth"

This one I have a problem with. No I am a die hard docked Rottweiler fan and do not foresee having a tailed Rottweiler nor foresee that I will stop docking puppy tails. HOWEVER. This section reads like ALL ARC members MUST dock the tails of their Rottweilers. Also, It STILL allows for people who import tailed dogs to dock them.

A) If someone wants to have a tailed Rottweiler I see NO problem with it. IF they want to show a tailed Rott again no problem. IF they want to leave the tails on their pups, so what?

B) if you import a tailed dog then by God it should stay tailed. Docking after 7 days of age should be totally banned! If you want a docked dog then for God's sake buy a docked puppy/dog.

AMEN !!! AMEN !! AMEN !!!

Let me add my AMENs to this also. Basically they are requiring the membership to dock all puppies. Why can't this tail issue be put to rest instead of trying to sneak the docked requirement into everything.

[mikimm]

Let me add my AMENs to this also. Basically they are requiring the membership to dock all puppies. Why can't this tail issue be put to rest instead of trying to sneak the docked requirement into everything.

Yes! Leave the tail on if it wasn't docked in the first few days!

I actually like the looks of a tailed rottie. But I don't dislike the docked ones.

"#6. It is strongly recommended that all members of the American Rottweiler Club give a donation of $100 for each stud fee they receive. They may donate to any Rottweiler organization of their choice including the American Rottweiler Club Legislative Fund, Rottweiler Health Foundation, or Rottweiler Rescue Foundation

#7. It is strongly recommended that all members of the American Rottweiler Club give a donation of $50 for every litter they produce (3 or more live puppies). They may donate to any Rottweiler organization of their choice including the American Rottweiler Club Legislative Fund, Rottweiler Health Foundation, or Rottweiler Rescue Foundation "

OK, deep breath here....I'm about to take a stand....Personally, I think these two should be left off. We can strongly recommend all sorts of things. But why waste print recommending donations. In my opinion, it would be super if we all donating money, time, etc. to improve the lot of Rottweilers. And actually I am pretty sure most of us do in one way or another. But we don't need these sorts of recommendations muddying up an organizations list of mandatory practices. Instead of recommending donations, either write that into the mission of the organization or make it part of joining it.