akc registration

[nick teifke]

Originally posted by alexav
Dear Sasha's Mom,
I hope you are successful in your attempts to get Sasha's Registration, however....
AKC "papers" are not really that important unless you REALLY want to show in conformation.
You can show in obedience, agility, tracking and other performance events with ILP approval (WAY easy to get). IMO conformation is the most expensive and least interesting of all AKC events. (Sorry folks if I offend, I know some people LOVE it. It bores the life out of me!:) )
Working for rescues and shelters over the years and seeing drawer after drawer full of AKC papers from dogs who had been PTS for lack of homes gave me a certain "bah-humbug" attitude.

Thats not true. AKC papers can mean alot more than just something you need for conformation.
Furthermore, because a dog that was put down had papers is really irrelevent. Yes there are a lack of homes, but that doesnt have anything to do with *responsible* breeding. The way some are looked down upon in here for wanting to get a well bred dog from a reputable breeder is quite disturbing sometimes. You may have a bah-humbug attitude, but make sure its pointed in the right direction.
And btw - I say that being quite involved in rescue so I see it all also. But I also see the importance of good breeding and registrations. I just get a little sick of some people insinuating that if you dont get a rescue dog you are contributing to the Rottweiler over population. Its just not true.

[godfreyc]

Your are absolutely right IMHO nick teifke. And I might add that I don't even let a restaurant get away with getting my order wrong, so I'm sure not gonna let somebody sell me a registered animal and then say "Oh, sorry but my wife lost the papers" I wouldn't do that to anyone and they shouldn't try to do it to me, cause I'm not going away until they yell for surrender. :D

[RottnKid1]

Sasha's Mom,

I hate to disappoint you, but if this breeder truly sent in the litter application, you should have received your blue slip when you purchased your pup. Even if the breeder hadn't sent in the application far enough in advance to provide you with her blue slip at the time of purchase, you certainly should've received a call from the breeder informing you that the papers had arrived and should have had your dog's blue slip in hand long ago.

Another option you can consider is getting an ILP on your dog. You can check it out at www.akc.org. Good luck!

[JFred]

sorry Traci but I disagree. A "responcible" breeder would have done all the things you mention but this guy sounds like a one time breeder who probably doesn't do much of anything the way it should be done.

It's not at all unusual for a breeder to have sold all their puppies before the litter registration arrives. A lady who works in the AKC Reg Dept told me that this is the situation that bothers her the most. The breeder actually registers the litter but fails to give the purchaser his paper. This breeder sounds like he may not be the most responcible person in the world and probably is disorganized.

Have you heard from AKC about the status of the litter registration? What you have to do next depends on whether or not he has actually registered Sasha's litter. She sounds like an adorable puppy BTW. Please let me know what they say and I'll be more than happy to help you in any way that I can.PM me if you want to. IMHO you are getting some advise based on the possibility that you may be thinking of breeding Sasha at some time. The situation with all the BSL and shelters full of unwanted dogs, often Rottwelers, causes the people who have to deal with this on a daily basis to discourage breeding. I'm sure you're aware of everyone's fears for the breed. You've been on the forum long enough to know the concerns.

I also believe that you have a right to Sasha's papers and it sounds like you will be able to get them if you fully understand the process of registering a litter. Again, if I can help you in anyway let me know.

Bennie Sue

[RottnKid1]

Originally posted by RottnKid1
Sasha's Mom,

Even if the breeder hadn't sent in the application far enough in advance to provide you with her blue slip at the time of purchase, you certainly should've received a call from the breeder informing you that the papers had arrived and should have had your dog's blue slip in hand long ago.

Please see above. As I said, even if the breeder didn't have the papers at the time he sold the pups, Sasha's Mom should have had her blue slip long before now - her pup is 9 mos. old. Even allowing for mistakes in paperwork, there is no excuse for being without the promised reg. papers by now. Whether a one-time breeder, a BYB or whatever, she was told that she would be able to register her dog and this guy has reneged on the deal. Being disorganized is absolutely no excuse. Even lack of knowlegde is no excuse. A simple call to AKC would have provided him with all the information necessary.

BUT, as I also stated before, Sasha's Mom at least has the option of getting an ILP. This won't allow her to show her dog in the breed ring, but she could still compete in AKC obedience or agility.

The sad truth of the matter is that Sasha's Mom got a raw deal and this "breeder" should be reported.

[Rottiedude]

It's great to register your Rotties with AKC, but remember this:
I watched one of those 20/20-type shows about the AKC... they sent in papers on puppies that didn't exist, just to show that the AKC does not have their act together, and anyone can get papers on any dog, full breed or not.
Be wary of the AKC.

[JFred]

Traci, I think you're missing the point. The problem now is not what the breeder SHOULD have done. Simply what he FAILED to do. Of course he should have done everything you said IF he were an honest responcible breeder with good intentions and a genuine concern for the Breed. I'm not making excuses for this man. He probably thought he could make a few bucks and God only knows what has happened to Sasha's parents.

Sasha's Mom is in a position that she should not ailienate this man. Her options depend on what AKC tells her about the status of the litter registration. IMO it appears that she is going to need his cooperation if she is to be successful in getting her reg on Sasha.

She has actually found the breeder! She has the reg papers of the parents in hand. Lets assume that he did not reg the litter. There is still time to do that with help from Sash's Mom. Lets assume that he DID reg the litter and has lost the paperwork. They can be replaced by AKC . These things need to be done as soon as possible. There may be penalties and Sasha's Mom may have to pay those if the breeder refuses to. That will be her decision to make should the time come.

All these things will require some documentation and cooperation from the breeder. She needs to be very careful and befriend him at this point. She wants her AKC papers. She can tell him what she really thinks later.

As for reporting him..to whom? AKC is a registering service. They WILL help her with her papers if she can provide the correct documentation. His adult dogs are gone. What is there to report? You have to have PROOF of an attempt to defraud to even get an AKC investigation rep to "visit" a breeder.

Even when you get the papers and pedigree..there is no way other than DNA to prove the dogs listed are the parents of your puppy. Should they be, what about the grandparents? great grandparents?It's only when you start breeding that you see how easily it would be to manipulate the AKC system. I have a7mo old puppy now whose parentage is in question. It took 6 mo to get the litter reg and I can't do DNA without the breeders permission. He comes from a " glorified puppy mill". I've had dogs all my life and I was duped so Sasha's Mom, don't beat yourself up. Just take a deep breath and continue with your own investigatio. Good Luck!!!!

Bennie Sue

[rottmommie]

Will this make a difference in whether you choose to keep the dog??? Oh i hope not, not at her age now.....
I would hate to think what would happen to her now if she went back to the breeeder........
I would consider myself dang lucky to have a healthy dog that had a great temperament.......and I would pay top dollar for one.
AKC wouldnt make a bit of difference to me either way, as long as I had a wonderful companion.........
I think you should get a portion of your money back, AND the option to keep the dog. I dont know what you paid, but I would expect something back for the LIE and INCONVIENIENCE.......

[Sasha'sMom]

Thanks for all the great dialogue regarding my concern. You all have been most informative! One thing I want everyone to know is that Sasha is not going anywhere! I love this dog and am very pleased with her disposition. AKC papers could not make her a better pet for my family. However, I would like the papers because she was advertised as being a registered dog. I only paid $300 for her and the other day the breeder gave me $40 along with the papers on her parents. I just want the papers on Sasha.

[godfreyc]

Sasha's Mom YOU CAN GET THEM! You have been a very determined person so far and this is not out of reach. You are entitled to those papers and that doesn't make you selfish. Of course she is a wonderful dog and you will keep her but if you want my opinion, GO GET WHAT'S YOURS! If nothing else maybe this guy will get such a headache from dealing with this it won't happen again. You have tenacity and that's most of the battle. My offer is the same as JFred's if you find yourself lost in the red tape PM me I'll be glad to help.;)

[RottnKid1]

I already stated that Sasha's Mom should try to talk the breeder into getting the necessary application and paperwork done, even if she has to be the one to pay for it AND that there may be penalties involved if the litter application wasn't sent in in a timely manner! If she can do this, great! If she can't, then she can still go for an ILP. sure, it's not the same thing, but her dog would still be able to compete in obedience & agility and be pointed and/or titled in those areas.

And yes, this man needs to be reported to AKC, even if it's after she tries every means to get what she wants. The newspaper ad should be in archives to prove that it stated the pups were registered. Whether he still has the sire and dam is beside the point - he was dishonest and should have future AKC privileges suspended - or present ones if he's already got himself another "breeding pair."

I'm VERY familiar with dishonest breeding practices - all you have to do is read about it in the breeding section. People can sit around on their butts and whine about things or take some proactive measures in an attempt to change things. I'm not one to just sit around and lament over a situation if there's any possibility to DOING something about it.

I sincerely hope that Sasha's Mom will be able to get the papers - and the other people who were also scammed by this guy, but there's a good possibility that she'll never get the registration and she must be prepared for that.

[JFred]

Sasha's Mom, We've given you the information you need to go forth with this situation. I'm with godfreyc, what are you waiting for? I'll repeat, TALK TO SOMEONE IN THE REG DEPT AT AKC. They will help you. It seems that you have everything you need to put the pieces together. Are you confused about what you need to do?

Traci, have you ever tried to have someone's AKC registration rights taken away.? The ad in the paper means nothing. She doesn't have any documentation that the dog was purchased from him. Wanting this breeder to be held responcible is understandable but it requires PROOF!!!! I'm sorry if I sound abrasive but this thread seems to have reached the point that we're beating a dead horse.

Sasha's Mom, PLEASE let AKC help you.

Bennie Sue

[RottnKid1]

Yes, JFRED, I have. I know all the ins and outs these dishonest people use and it may be a losing battle, but I'm willing to go to battle in the attempt to set things right. At least I'll know I tried.

And no, we shouldn't be debating this issue, at least in this thread. We've taken it off track and I apologize for that, Sasha's Mom.