are dogs capable of complex thoughts??

[fostermom]

I just read another posting and this comment really got me thinking:

"stating that dogs actually have complex thought processes and think through situations is something humansa are only capable of. not that dogs dont think because they do when you condition and train certain scenarios and stimulas the dog thinks through these things he has been taught and reacts with the proper decision. but no reasoning capabilities"

I've read many stories and seen a few videos of dogs doing things that (in my mind) demonstrate a certain level of intelligence and complex thought:
--the recent posting about the two dogs (a pit and rott) who saved a child from drowning and then prevented him from getting near the water until help arrived.
--a story posted by the founder of Pets Alive (Middletown, NY) where she related a story of an old golden that had been abandoned by her neighbor who was found holding her toddler up against a tree next to a ravine (one of the dogs feet was literally hanging over the precipice), preventing the child from falling in.
--a story I recently watched on TV where a woman was on a ventillator for sleep apnea. The power went out and the machine stopped. The woman was unable to breath through her mouth and was suffocating...her dog (a rottweiler) chewed through the tube to the ventillator so that she could get air.
--a video on UTube where a beagle wanted some cookies left on the counter but wasn't tall enough to reach them. After futively jumping up at the counter several times, he then changed his "approach" and pushed a chair over to the counter, jumped up on the chair, and ate the cookies.
--my parent's dog Taffy who (when my mother accidently stepped on one of her pups) and the pup was lying, unresponsive on the floor, flipped her puppy onto her back and started licking the pup's abdomen until the pup revived (canine equivalent of CPR).

So....Intelligent thought or not????

[Nishasmom]

Obviously I am one who puts great faith in the capabilities of our four legged friends ! There is no doubt in my mind that they ARE indeed capable of intelligent thought.

Some examples:
*Rotties have been known to herd children out of the street or other harmful situations.
*In Texas we have a lot of rattlesnakes ; I hear quite a few stories of pooches who have intersected the bite to save their human.
*Dogs often "alert" owners to dangers such as fires, carbon menoxcide (sp?), smoke, ect. Even if they have a way out (i.e. dog door) they take the time to wake up their owners to save them.

[Cdn1050]

That's a good question. I saw on the news a few years ago, a lady who had an epileptic seizure. Her Rottweiler dialed 911, barked into the phone until medics arrrived. Then the dog unlocked & opened the door to allow the ambulance medics in. How does the dog know to do this?

You can't keep test training the dog by making people have seizures for the dog to learn this behaviour. I would think that in the middle of a person having a seizure, there would be no time for training. As that person would need medical assistance asap. IDK, it could be possible (as anythings possible) for some dogs to have a little bit of a complex thought process, but nothing like what humans have.

[Shane]

I think that if dogs couldn't form complex thoughts and perform some reasoning, there wouldn't be guide dogs, seizure dogs, etc.

[lgslgs]

I've had a dog that understood "Go to the kitchen and find your ball" the first time we said it. The dog knew the commands "go", "kitchen", "find", and "ball" and we were quite impressed that he could make sense of a complex command that used all four commands together.

Lynda

[Carol Burke]

I believe that dogs are extremely intellegent and capable of much more then we give them credit for. Moe used to be a great counter surfer(and very succesful at it) Faith would tell on him everytime by barking and alerting me. How did she know this was wrong and she should tell? Why didn't she just wait and share whatever Moe got off the counter? When Lucky was young I had another male about his age. They got along together and played quite a bit. One day the other dog had a toy that was a particular favorite of Lucky's, instead of trying to take the toy Lucky went and got another toy and made a big production of playing with the other toy until the other dog came over to join in, Lucky then ran over and grabbed the toy he really wanted. That certainly took some thought.

[wamack]

When Shiva was a pup she would get something that she wasn't supposed to have IE: shoe and a toy. She would chew the forbidden item till someone was nearby and then she would scoot over and chew her toy like she never had the chewed up shoe nearby. I marvel at that level of sneakiness. It took us a couple of times to figure out what she was doing. So of course they have complex thoughts, they have high levels of problem solving. What dogs don't have are complex emotions, which humans do tend to project on to their dogs, maybe that's what the guy on the other thread was trying to convey.

[Bear's mommy]

Originally Posted by Carol Burke

One day the other dog had a toy that was a particular favorite of Lucky's, instead of trying to take the toy Lucky went and got another toy and made a big production of playing with the other toy until the other dog came over to join in, Lucky then ran over and grabbed the toy he really wanted.

That is so funny. When my smaller dog, Chloe, wanted a bone from Bear, my rottie, even though she had one of her own, she would go to the back door and hit the blinds with her nose like she needed to go outside. When we would go to let her out, of course, all the dogs would want to go out and Bear would always drop his bone and go outside too. Then once all the dogs were outside, Chloe would dart back inside as fast as she could never having gotten even a foot from the door so she could get his bone. Chloe quickly learned that if she could get the other dogs out of the house that she could take their stuff so she definitely knew what she was doing.....little stinker. :)

[brunie's mom]

Originally Posted by Carol Burke

I believe that dogs are extremely intellegent and capable of much more then we give them credit for. Moe used to be a great counter surfer(and very succesful at it) Faith would tell on him everytime by barking and alerting me. How did she know this was wrong and she should tell? Why didn't she just wait and share whatever Moe got off the counter? When Lucky was young I had another male about his age. They got along together and played quite a bit. One day the other dog had a toy that was a particular favorite of Lucky's, instead of trying to take the toy Lucky went and got another toy and made a big production of playing with the other toy until the other dog came over to join in, Lucky then ran over and grabbed the toy he really wanted. That certainly took some thought.

I've seen the same sort of thing happen here.
Baxter will be happily chewing on a bone...our other dog China wants that bone...but will not dare try to take it. China goes to the window and starts barking, like there is someone outside....Baxter that is chewing on a bone...jumps up and leaves the bone to see what is happening out the window....and China makes a rush for the bone and takes off with it.

I've seen this happen numerous times...and the dummy falls for it each time.

I do think they have complex thoughts, when it's important to them.

Gina

[Sasha's Mom]

I think dogs are capable of complex thoughts..... one example: The Kong... Sasha loves it, but she has learned that if she throws the Kong up in the air, sometimes a treat will fall out when it hits the floor... it's quite entertaining to watch. She will growl and grumble at the Kong if the treats don't fall out right away, so she will keep bouncing it around until she succeeds. After which she will be totally exhausted...

[Ayoka]

First of all...Philosophy major here...lol

I think there's a difference between being able to solve problems and having a conscience...(i.e. knowing right from wrong) I would suggest that dogs can solve complex problems (so can crows, dolphins and other animals) but if a dog was presented with the dog equivalent of a wallet full of cash - say a steak - on the street/sidewalk - he wouldn't ask himself where it came form or if was someone elses or wether they needed that steak to stay alive or feed their children - he'd just eat it! A human - even if they decided to keep the wallet would know they had taken something that belonged to someone else and would likely not divulge how they came into the money to others.

And so, I don't depend on my dog to tell me who is good and who is bad and I don't think he behaves badly because he's secretly plotting against me and most of all I know not to leave a steak on the counter and walk away!!!

[chivas]

Chivas knew the difference and name of many of her toys, which she had tons of. I would give her a new toy, tell her what it was (ex. MONKEY), then a couple days later - tell her to get her monkey out of her quite full toybox, about 85% of the time she got the right one, if it WAS the wrong one I would say "no go get the MONKEY" and she would drop the wrong toy and then always get the right one. I dont know if Chivas was exceptionally bright just because she WAS or if because we spend so much time with her.

[Jaidann]

I agree with Carol Burke. I believe they are smarter than we give them credit for or most believe. I personally believe this about horses too. I also believe they have emotions that most will say they don't. If we could all speak dog, I think most of us would be surprised. And probably shocked at what they think of us humans!

I don't necessarily believe that they reason things out the exact way we do. But given the excellent examples so far, it's obvious they can reason certain things out and solve a problem.

Some might say well those are very few examples of things in a world over stuffed with dogs. However, how many don't we hear about? And if you think about humans, you have a few geniuses, most fall into the line of "average", and then the ones who make you slap your forehead and can be as dumb as a bag of rocks. Same, same :)

All just IMO, of course.

[GypsysMom]

My husbands Aunt used to own great danes, thats the only breed they ever had up until about 6 years ago when their last one died at age 9, well anyhow when her daughter was young and she would decide to leave the front yard towards the sidewalk she would pick her up by the seat of her pants and carry her back to either the porch or the yard, they live in Detroit and the roads are side streets but very busy and once you are on the sidewalk right there is the street and cars cant see kids the sometimes walk in between them and we all know how sneaky little ones try and be, they actually had a death of a 2yr old that way in the family, such a shame nobody was watching her..

So Yes I do think they have those thoughts, When we were in Utah I was feeling very weird I have epilepsy so it felt as tho I was going to have a seizure I had all the "before" signs and Gypsy followed me and kinda layed on my lap more then usual, I didnt connect it to that though

[Nikki's Dad]

Originally Posted by Sasha's Mom

I think dogs are capable of complex thoughts..... one example: The Kong... Sasha loves it, but she has learned that if she throws the Kong up in the air, sometimes a treat will fall out when it hits the floor... it's quite entertaining to watch. She will growl and grumble at the Kong if the treats don't fall out right away, so she will keep bouncing it around until she succeeds. After which she will be totally exhausted...

Hahahahaha my Nikki does the same thing. Sometimes she runs with the Kong in her mouth then throws it a few feet so then the treats will come out better.

Another thing she does is - she knows that I won't allow her in to the kitchen while we're eating. Sometimes she gets so anxious though if we're eating something like lamb or porkchops, and she wants to come in and smell it. So what she'll do is, run downstairs and grab a ball, then come back upstairs and pretend that she's playing with it, then throw it in the kitchen and secretly try to creep in.

Never underestimate the intelligence of our furry little friends!!