What's a good price to pay

[turbodx]

WOW Trina J thanks , i've been surfing the web and that's the most detailed ifo i've gotten so far , thanks for the post ^^^^^^^^^ (#45)

[MarleysMama]

I think that's it's a tough call. Lemme explain.

I was looking for a great breeder...I was told the parents BOTH had all kinds of paperwork, titles, certifications....just to drive 5 hours and it be a crock of you know what. I thought I HAD done everything right. I thought I had asked all the right questions. He even questioned me, which I thought was something only someone who cares about their pups would do. And I was taken for a ride.

I know I could have walked out of there, and just waited for a breeder locally to have a litter...but in my heart, I could not walk away from him. He was covered in poop, and worst of all, I SAW the other people there looking at puppies. I could have walked away, I could have said it's too much of a risk...but I didn't. I told him what I thought about what he was doing, offered him 300 less than his price..was given his akc papers, and walked out of that sh!t hole with Marley... and I don't regret a MOMENT of it. I feel like I saved him. And in the long run, he would have been either in a shelter on death row waiting to be saved, or turned into some vicious "rockweiler". I couldn't let that happen to him.

However, I was in a direct situation that I had to make a choice, on the spot. You have options.

One day, my husband and I want to rescue Rotties. After our experience, it's something that I feel very strongly about. I got Marley KNOWING things could go terribly wrong...especially after coming here and reading... but that was a chance I was willing to take. That's the chance every since person who adopts a rescue takes. If you are not able to deal with the potential problems...(and vet bills are not cheap either)..not to mention the heartache..then I would think it would be best for you to look into reputable breeders. Yes, things might still go wrong, you never know...but you have a lot better chances. It's up to you. You also have a 4 year old and if God for bid anything happened to your pup, you child would be devistated. This is something I realized once we brought Marley home to meet our 3 year old who instantly fell in love with him. I don't even know what I would do if anyhting happened to Marley. I could deal with the heart ache, I chose too, but not my son... =[

I hope that this helps in some way. I really do see both sides. It's a sad reality that these BYB are out there and doing what they're doing. And I intentionally avoided them. Knowing that there were TONS of puppies I could 'save'...I didn't want to go down that road. And here I sit, with a Back Yard Bread rotti at my feet. I could be in for a world of heartache...only time will tell.

[SABELLESMOM]

Thank you, Marley's mom! I, too, took a dog in need, a rescue. Mr. Digbee came with a number of issues, which we gradually fixed. Our theory, is he was 1/2" too short for show, as otherwise he was a beautiful party, tri-color . His initial health was fair. He had a sad to almost agressive quality to him, which with trust and love he soon overcame.

This dog turned out to be a wonderful companion to all of us, particularly my daughter. He attended all of her softball games. He accompanied her to gymnastics. He even went to occasional dance classes with her. His heart of gold led him to sleep beside the crates of both of our Rottie girls when they each, in turn joined our household. Because of him, neither cried for even a second!

He went on outings to the lake, boating, swimming, picnics, and beach volleyball...where he dutifully refereed from the sidelines. When he was 11, he blew a knee and had ACL surgery. He just truned 17. Tho he could actually be older. We were told he was 6-9 months when we rescued him...THAT may have been inaccurate.

Otherwise his one and ONLY medical problem is allergies. You CAN get very lucky with a rescue. He has given us 17 years loaded with love and is still running about like a 5 year old! Yes, his ears are gray. He sleeps more. But he's still been the most endearing little guy for the past 17 years!

My friend, Donna, rescued 2 Rottweilers. Blue is a MACH champion in agility. Luna is a homebody, with a great personality. My friend Nicole, rescued a long-haired Rottie. Her husband is a personal trainer (humans) and Atlas is their spokesdog.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Skip

..... As far as Karl goes, wasn't he the dog that was banned for life for taking another BST here in USRC?

I just want to say that I did some more research since I posted this, and I think Karl is a very good dog. I was at the nationals last year when he failed the BST, and I thought the ruling at the time was a little harsh. Every dog has a bad day once in awhile, and I just didn't think he was prepped properly for the gunshots, and I didn't think he deserved a lifetime ban. I've looked at what he has done since then in germany,,,passing his Ztp and high scores in schutzhund. Looks like a very high quality dog. I'm not sure if USRC will recognize his new breed test that he passed in germany, but he's still a very high quality dog in my opinion, but I still would not pay 5 grand for ANY pup from ANY breeding.

[toobad]

Skip .. I understand what you are saying. Thats is lot of money but every now and then you have to gamble a little. He did very well and his SCH3 scores were 97-95-96 and he did get his ZTP. I would tend to take the ADRK's word that he is breedable than listen to the USRC. The dam is also the 2005 Klub Siegrin and you have to think about what she may offer to the litter. I don't think you find two more stable dogs offering pups at a more reasonable price and they have both proven they are great in conformation as well. " On paper " it would seem they are going to be great dogs coming from such a great background. Lorenzen also has Zilly pups for a little more reasonable price but then again , you don't get that Klub Siegerin title on the mothers side. Just about everything from Neubrand kennels has proven itself over and over again on a field, in a ring, and as producing great offspring when their time is right.

When people pay $100,000 + for a dog you would expect them to try getting some of their money back. I understand that. Paying $5000 for a puppy isn't for everyone but some are willing to gamble. Some just willing to pay for that name in a pedigree.

Karl is not even 3 years old yet and I'm sure that as time goes by he will prove himself to all of his doubters in the USRC.

Djuke was just brought here to the US and is living in a kennel in Florida. I'm not positive but I don't think his pups will be any cheaper when bred to a top of the line female over here. A friend bred his female to him and is due to have pups but then again she is not a Klub Siegrin.

Looking back at some of the imports brought here such as Gonzzo, Ramzies, etc. none of the offspring were very cheap. I don't think you can even put them into the same catagory as Karl

[TrinaJ]

Originally Posted by turbodx

WOW Trina J thanks , i've been surfing the web and that's the most detailed ifo i've gotten so far , thanks for the post ^^^^^^^^^ (#45)

Your welcome, it was on the AKC website under events. You just need to select the area and dog breed.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by toobad

Skip .. I understand what you are saying. Thats is lot of money but every now and then you have to gamble a little....

When people pay $100,000 + for a dog you would expect them to try getting some of their money back. I understand that. Paying $5000 for a puppy isn't for everyone but some are willing to gamble. Some just willing to pay for that name in a pedigree.

You're more of a gambler than I am. After the experiences I've had, epecially in the past couple of years, I will stick with what I know, deal with people I know, and always always remember a PUPPY is a complete and total crapshoot, no matter what is printed on a pedigree.

$5000 for a puppy? Never.

$100,000 for a dog? Some people have more dollars than sense.

[laurlitt]

Originally Posted by turbodx

I think 5-800 should be a fair price to pay , guess I'll keep looking

Considering the amount of time and money that a good breeder puts into their breeding program, 5-800 per puppy will not recoup the costs of the litter. The cost to get health clearances (hip, elbow, heart, eyes) on the sire/dam alone can be around $1500... and that is just the start of the costs for proving the sire/dam are worthy of being bred, not to mention the costs of whelping a litter...

If you are looking for a sound, healthy puppy... you get what you pay for... good luck.

[turbodx]

^^^^^ well I've called about 10 breeders so far and I guess I'll be paying aroung 1500 :( for my pup as that seems to be the going " pet price "

Btw the rescue people are charging upto $500 but they can't tell what their pups are mixed with or any info on their heath . I just figure if I have to pay that much might as well but the real thing .

[laurlitt]

Originally Posted by toobad

I would tend to take the ADRK's word that he is breedable than listen to the USRC.

It was an ADRK judge who judged the USRC BST event and deemed him unbreedable. USRC was not the one who made this decision.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by toobad

Skip .. I understand what you are saying. Thats is lot of money but every now and then you have to gamble a little. He did very well and his SCH3 scores were 97-95-96 and he did get his ZTP. I would tend to take the ADRK's word that he is breedable than listen to the USRC. The dam is also the 2005 Klub Siegrin and you have to think about what she may offer to the litter. I don't think you find two more stable dogs offering pups at a more reasonable price and they have both proven they are great in conformation as well. " On paper " it would seem they are going to be great dogs coming from such a great background. Lorenzen also has Zilly pups for a little more reasonable price but then again , you don't get that Klub Siegerin title on the mothers side. Just about everything from Neubrand kennels has proven itself over and over again on a field, in a ring, and as producing great offspring when their time is right.

When people pay $100,000 + for a dog you would expect them to try getting some of their money back. I understand that. Paying $5000 for a puppy isn't for everyone but some are willing to gamble. Some just willing to pay for that name in a pedigree.

Karl is not even 3 years old yet and I'm sure that as time goes by he will prove himself to all of his doubters in the USRC.

Djuke was just brought here to the US and is living in a kennel in Florida. I'm not positive but I don't think his pups will be any cheaper when bred to a top of the line female over here. A friend bred his female to him and is due to have pups but then again she is not a Klub Siegrin.

Looking back at some of the imports brought here such as Gonzzo, Ramzies, etc. none of the offspring were very cheap. I don't think you can even put them into the same catagory as Karl

There are a lot of successful work/show stable dogs out there at a more reasonable price. Karl hasn't produced anything yet that can be used to say he produces well. You also have to look at who was holding the leash for all the high scores. If the dog was that great and stable, why didn't the new owner trial him himself? Another thought...How many successful litters has the breeder produced before? Does the breeder know what it takes to properly raise a litter from birth to 8 weeks old? Also, having these names in the pedigree is one thing, but are the puppies going to people who have been successful in work/show with other dogs? The pedigree won't mean crap for the potential buyers if they have no knowledge on how to work and show the offspring. I don't mind a reasonable amount of gambling with my money for what I want, but 5 grand is not justifiable here. A price like that could easily come back to bite the breeder in the ass if the pups don't all make sieger and schH 3 with great health certs. Since you brought up Gonzzo, have you seen all the trouble HIS owner is in now? Barred from registering any pups for at least a year.

[Apollo02771]

Andy,

I would just make sure that you will be able to show this puppy in the USRC due to the failed BST BEFORE you buy it so there are no major surprises afterwards. Maybe you do not care to show in USRC anymore, not sure but I would hate to see all his offspring banned and people paying an outlandish price for a puppy that can't be shown. As far as imports and puppy prices, an 8 week old puppy is a crapshoot in alot of ways, and spending good money-(1500-2000) is tough enough for most, but $5000 for an 8 week old puppy is really crazy. Hell, last years BEST PUPPY in the region was $1800. Good Luck to you though if you feel that is what you want, just cover all your bases first. Take Care,

[laurlitt]

[quote=Apollo02771;805926]I would just make sure that you will be able to show this puppy in the USRC due to the failed BST BEFORE you buy QUOTE]

Offspring of Karl would NOT be banned from USRC for his failed BST.

[TrinaJ]

Originally Posted by turbodx

^^^^^ well I've called about 10 breeders so far and I guess I'll be paying aroung 1500 :( for my pup as that seems to be the going " pet price "

Btw the rescue people are charging upto $500 but they can't tell what their pups are mixed with or any info on their heath . I just figure if I have to pay that much might as well but the real thing .

If you only want to spend $500 what is wrong with rescuing a dog that may be PTS? Is this a pride thing for you spending $500 and ONLY getting a dog who may or may not be pure? I am sure that a LOT of the members here who have rescued a dog will tell you that it was the best thing they've done and some would even say the best friend/companion, dog they EVER had the pleasure of owning.

What are you expectations of the dog you buy? Do you want to show the dog you get, or breed later down the line, or do you just want a pet to love and carefor? These are the questions you also need to ask yourself.

I am not being mean i just couldn't word it better

Trina

[TrinaJ]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

You're more of a gambler than I am. After the experiences I've had, epecially in the past couple of years, I will stick with what I know, deal with people I know, and always always remember a PUPPY is a complete and total crapshoot, no matter what is printed on a pedigree.

$5000 for a puppy? Never.

$100,000 for a dog? Some people have more dollars than sense.

I agree, never would i pay $5000 for a puppy. Is the puppy male, will it be good enough to be a Stud dog is that why this person is 'thinking' of spending such an amount?

I hope the $100,000 was a typo, who in their right mind would spend that much money?